Power - what do you do?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Sarasota, FL
When the Entec AC line noise analyzer showed me just how dirty even my dedicated 20amp circuit was, I became very interested in power. Clean AC without restricting frequencies is the goal. But also, I feel that consistent clean power is also very important - especially to sources and in particular, digital sources.

I will admit, I was ready to sell the VAC amps. They were sounding awful. Bright and overly sibilant. I tried them upstairs (dedicated 20amp circuit) and downstairs (regular old house line). They were worse downstairs.

It wasn't until I knew my AC - even my dedicated AC - was dirty did I put two and two together and realized that point to point wired tube amps might just be the most susceptible to dirty AC. Amps like VAC and Jadis and many other P2P tube amps which don't have their own massive power plant and circuit boards and other technology built in to filter out bad AC, combined with tubes which seem to simply amplify dirty AC, are easily the most affected by dirty power IMO. Big SS amps like McIntosh, Boulder and Krell don't seem to be as affected by dirty AC.

Back to the VAC amps.....I dusted off one of my APC S15's. The APC S15 and S20 are monsters. They are the size and weight of a big power amp. They are APC's answer for high end audio and video for clean, protected, stable AC. I plugged both VAC amps into it and talk about going from worst to first! The difference was so over the top better that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Blackest backgrounds. Super smooth on top. Tighter bass. Better midrange. If the Entec measurements didn't convince me, listening to the "new and much improved" VAC's did.

I spent the better part of the week talking to people I know and trust. If I spoke to 10 people, I got 10 different answers.

It appears that there is some consensus - power regeneration is best only on digital sources, power conditioning (my APC, Torus, Bryston BIT-20, etc.) CAN rob you of some dynamics (personally, I don't buy it if implemented properly) and third, the Shunyata way - which appears to be proprietary and has a lot of supporters. :)

As for properly implementing power conditioning, I found that when I plugged both power amps into one APC S15, I retained all the dynamics and gained blacker backgrounds and all the benefits mentioned above. But when I dusted off my other S15 and plugged one amp into each power conditioner, I was robbed of some dynamics.

I have recently purchased the MIT Z Super Duplex outlets as a start and hope to have them in my system next week. I believe settling on a power foundation will involve some trial and error.

What do you use for conditioning, regenerate and/or stabilization of voltage?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
As a side note, I spent a good hour speaking with Matthew from Torus on Friday. That guy knows his stuff. He told me that although Torus sells solutions for "whole home", he recommended for high end audio that you clean AC at the device/source/amp/preamp stage because most of the line noise in a home comes from other devices on the line.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
2x20 amp dedicated lines.
Furutech GTX D Rh receptacles
Assorted power cords including Kubala-Sosna Emotion and Elation
Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC front-end
Shunyata Venom Defender amps
 
Great topic, Mike. I believe in the garbage in/garbage out rule, so I try to feed my components with as good/clean power as I can.

Starting with the lines, I have 20amp dedicated lines for my amps and sources, 4 altogether. I use Furutech GTX Receptacles at each line. I should probably upgrade the 12 gauge lines to 10 gauge (at least for the amps) at some point (didn't know better at the time).

For conditioner, I have the Shunyata Triton. It's a good conditioner, but I'd love to try a power regenerator like the Accuphase PS-510 or PS-1200. I have a friend who uses the latter and says it has literally transformed his system. I also know others on other forums have said similar things about the Accuphase units. I'd be curious if Shunyata would consider a power regenerator as one of their product offerings. Hope they see this thread and can opine. I'm also curious why it was noted that power regenerators are good for digital only? I thought amps and other sources would benefit as well, no?

Last but not least, Shunyata Zitron power cables everywhere (and ICs and SCs). They have been awesome in my system.:audiophile:
 
Last year when I went to your home I told you about your dirty AC. And if I'm not mistaking the one on far right had the worst of all.

The ENTECH is a wonderful and cheap tool to have at home.

Try first with the Zduplex and don't over do it. It could take some of the dynamics.

:)
 
Myles B. Astor said:
2x20 amp dedicated lines.
Furutech GTX D Rh receptacles
Assorted power cords including Kubala-Sosna Emotion and Elation
Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC front-end
Shunyata Venom Defender amps
Click to expand...

Myles, do you like the Venom Defenders? Considering those. What impact has it had on your SQ?

thx
 
highEndguy said:
MIT Magnum Ztrap for each amp
Click to expand...

yhyhyjut.jpg
 
Mike said:
When the Entec AC line noise analyzer showed me just how dirty even my dedicated 20amp circuit was, I became very interested in power. Clean AC without restricting frequencies is the goal. But also, I feel that consistent clean power is also very important - especially to sources and in particular, digital sources.

I will admit, I was ready to sell the VAC amps. They were sounding awful. Bright and overly sibilant. I tried them upstairs (dedicated 20amp circuit) and downstairs (regular old house line). They were worse downstairs.

It wasn't until I knew my AC - even my dedicated AC - was dirty did I put two and two together and realized that point to point wired tube amps might just be the most susceptible to dirty AC. Amps like VAC and Jadis and many other P2P tube amps which don't have their own massive power plant and circuit boards and other technology built in to filter out bad AC, combined with tubes which seem to simply amplify dirty AC, are easily the most affected by dirty power IMO. Big SS amps like McIntosh, Boulder and Krell don't seem to be as affected by dirty AC.

Back to the VAC amps.....I dusted off one of my APC S15's. The APC S15 and S20 are monsters. They are the size and weight of a big power amp. They are APC's answer for high end audio and video for clean, protected, stable AC. I plugged both VAC amps into it and talk about going from worst to first! The difference was so over the top better that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Blackest backgrounds. Super smooth on top. Tighter bass. Better midrange. If the Entec measurements didn't convince me, listening to the "new and much improved" VAC's did.

I spent the better part of the week talking to people I know and trust. If I spoke to 10 people, I got 10 different answers.

It appears that there is some consensus - power regeneration is best only on digital sources, power conditioning (my APC, Torus, Bryston BIT-20, etc.) CAN rob you of some dynamics (personally, I don't buy it if implemented properly) and third, the Shunyata way - which appears to be proprietary and has a lot of supporters. :)

As for properly implementing power conditioning, I found that when I plugged both power amps into one APC S15, I retained all the dynamics and gained blacker backgrounds and all the benefits mentioned above. But when I dusted off my other S15 and plugged one amp into each power conditioner, I was robbed of some dynamics.

I have recently purchased the MIT Z Super Duplex outlets as a start and hope to have them in my system next week. I believe settling on a power foundation will involve some trial and error.

What do you use for conditioning, regenerate and/or stabilization of voltage?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...


As mentioned in my other reply PS Audio P10 really works well with my VAC's

P10 Power Plant | PS Audio


I had two Torus RM20's and worked well with my SS but no with my VAC's.

Clean regulated power is very important - most don't know what they are missing until such is addressed. They may even fault the product as you were but then all the sudden realize it was the power all along.

There are lots of options and system dependant - Shunyata Typhon and Triton seems to be getting some buzz lately - they have great product and would like try at some point. Years ago used some of their product but felt they were surpassed.
 
Thanks Nelson. Do you experience any loss in dynamics with the combo?
 
If your setup works well in the Caribbean - it will work anywhere!
 
I may live in one of the most challenging situations. My building has 115 apartments., so 114 other people drawing from the line that comes into the building. When I had my Spectral gear it was a bit "buzzy". I am running an Adept Response unit from Audience that is "star grounded". I plug the amp directly into the Furutech in the wall. Black as night now.
 
A friend of mine tested 13 different conditioners and he swears Audience was the best.
 
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