New Magico speakers arriving 04/2015!

If Magico placed their tweeter in a shallow SEOS style waveguide, or one similar to what Revel uses, it would really help their sound.
 
Face said:
If Magico placed their tweeter in a shallow SEOS style waveguide, or one similar to what Revel uses, it would really help their sound.
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You say that like it's a fact. How could you possibly know that to be true and not idle speculation on your part? SEOS waveguides are designed for horns aren't they?
 
Waveguides and horns are really the same thing, but the term waveguide is more often used to describe horns that are smaller or shallower and offer less low frequency loading.

As for SEOS waveguides, they are on the shallow side and are suitable for either compression drivers or dome tweeters due to lighter loading effect on the diaphgram.

As far as a waveguide fixing the HF response, it will lessen rising HF up top. Also, if properly designed, will match the off axis of the midrange at the crossover point, eliminating the annoying peak off axis.
 
Cyril - perhaps you can coordinate with your friends at Goodwin's.


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I'll call Paul and find out when they expect the Q7 MkIIs are getting there.
 
Face said:
Waveguides and horns are really the same thing, but the term waveguide is more often used to describe horns that are smaller or shallower and offer less low frequency loading.

As for SEOS waveguides, they are on the shallow side and are suitable for either compression drivers or dome tweeters due to lighter loading effect on the diaphgram.

As far as a waveguide fixing the HF response, it will lessen rising HF up top. Also, if properly designed, will match the off axis of the midrange at the crossover point, eliminating the annoying peak off axis.
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It seems most speaker designers do not agree with you, as wave guides are not commonly used.
 
Face said:
If Magico placed their tweeter in a shallow SEOS style waveguide, or one similar to what Revel uses, it would really help their sound.
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This is an interesting thought. I owned the Salon 2's for two years and theirs is my favorite sounding beryllium tweeter. It is super smooth, you just hear the music and not the tweeter. Revel put some research into maximizing its performance and the waveguide was the main result of that research. However, I have not yet heard Magico's new diamond-coated beryllium tweeter.

Ken
 
That is probably true. Scan Speak used to make a D2905-9900 Revelator tweeter, that had an integrated waveguide a few year back. Not sure if that tweeter is still in production. The wave guide was calculated to work with 6" midrange, which is one of the most common sizes. Clearly, all new models that have been introduced since, lack this feature so it must have had some drawbacks (the biggest probably beeing low sales).

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Good post Keith. In my opinion all speaker cabinets have some resonance. It's really about the sound that the buyer loves. Every speaker is a compromise.
 
Alpinist said:
This is an interesting thought. I owned the Salon 2's for two years and theirs is my favorite sounding beryllium tweeter. It is super smooth, you just hear the music and not the tweeter. Revel put some research into maximizing its performance and the waveguide was the main result of that research. However, I have not yet heard Magico's new diamond-coated beryllium tweeter.

Ken
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One of the best tweeters I've ever heard. When you played the music loud, it just got loud, never shrill or fatiguing like so many others.
 
MDP said:
Good post Keith. In my opinion all speaker cabinets have some resonance. It's really about the sound that the buyer loves. Every speaker is a compromise.
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I think that is pretty much true Mark with the possible exception of Magicos. At least that's what I understand is Alon's intent. Hmmmm....???
 
Alpinist said:
Perhaps Myles. To what would you attribute the smoothness and seamlessness of the Salon 2's beryllium tweeter?

Ken
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Ken what I'm trying to say is how the tweeter is used and run are probably two of the most important factors in its performance.
 
I've often read about people's negative reaction to beryllium tweeters. Let me be honest, I delayed doing a demo of the Salon 2's for a long time.
I was very concerned about titanium drivers and the beryllium tweeter. I figured that they would be bright sounding. But as a lot of our members have heard, the Salon tweeter is most likely the best beryllium tweeter ever produced.
 
The Sandman said:
Buy a pair and have at them with some power tools. Let us know how it works out for you! :)
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Let me get right on that. :D
Myles B. Astor said:
Perhaps there are more important factors relating to a tweeter's performance than waveguides? :)
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I never said it was the most important.

Elberoth said:
That is probably true. Scan Speak used to make a D2905-9900 Revelator tweeter, that had an integrated waveguide a few year back. Not sure if that tweeter is still in production. The wave guide was calculated to work with 6" midrange, which is one of the most common sizes. Clearly, all new models that have been introduced since, lack this feature so it must have had some drawbacks (the biggest probably beeing low sales).

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First off, that tweeter is 10+ years old and is still available.

Plus, you must have missed these:

ScanSpeak D2908/714000
Seas Diamond T29D001
SEAS T29B001
SEAS 27TBCD/GB-DXT
Tymphany H25TG05-04, H25TG05-08, H26TG06-06, BC25SC08-04, BC25SC06-04
And the awfully familiar Morel CAT378. ;)

The first three have been introduced within the last 1-3 years and some of the Tymphany models are only a couple of months old.

Myles B. Astor said:
Ken what I'm trying to say is how the tweeter is used and run are probably two of the most important factors in its performance.
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Directivity is right up there with implementation(crossover point/slope), frequency response, and distortion.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Ken what I'm trying to say is how the tweeter is used and run are probably two of the most important factors in its performance.
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Hi Myles,

Here is some information about the Revel Salon 2's beryllium tweeter from the TAS review and a Kevin Voecks interview:

The tweeter is a beryllium dome inset into a slightly concave plate. This concave structure acts a waveguide and serves three functions. First, the waveguide increases the tweeter’s sensitivity by more efficiently coupling it with the air, just as horn loading a driver increases sensitivity. This means less power needs to be delivered to the tweeter, increasing its dynamic range and maximum output. Second, the waveguide controls the tweeter dispersion so that it matches the midrange driver’s dispersion at the crossover point. Third, the crossover point can be lower.

The Ultima2 high frequency waveguide benefited from our on-going R&D regarding modeling and optimizing waveguide performance. In practical terms, it allows us to better match the directivity of the midrange and especially to optimize the higher-frequency dispersion. Our in-house stereo lithography apparatus which allows us to make tooled parts in only hours was critical to the development of the waveguides. Extraordinarily small dimensional changes result in significant performance impact, so the ability to create slightly altered tooled waveguides at will is critical.

Best,
Ken
 
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