dlb2
New member
Hey Paul remember to convert everything to centimeters... 
Need a Help from Room Treatments
- Thread starter Paul
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Paul
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- #42
I went to store call "Planet of the sounds" and he moved to new location. ( Mike I'm sure you heard about them ) the place is like factory place. Wide open with bricks on side walls and it was about at least 3,500 sq ft. He had a Harbeth M40.1 right on the middle of the show room and sounds was just amazing( I owned them b4 so I knew their sound but it was way beyond my experiment ). I asked Gunner ( owner ) how can you do this without any treatments? He said it was all about the speakers positioning. He was saying the positioning can do 80% of sounds and rest of them with treatments. I'm sure some of you wouldn't agree however he proved to me so I'm a believer now.
Mike. Now I'm at 146 inches and toed in my ears sounds already much better. Now what else I should do ?
Mike. Now I'm at 146 inches and toed in my ears sounds already much better. Now what else I should do ?
Pour yourself a strong drink (three fingers tall). 
Let me write about finding the spot on each side of the room with the least amount of side wall or back wall influence.
Let me write about finding the spot on each side of the room with the least amount of side wall or back wall influence.
Bobvin
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- Jun 25, 2013
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- 1,068
Mike, from your comments your method sounds similar to Wilson protocol... Any significant differences? I will guess there are differences say between a speaker with a downward firing port vs. one to the rear? (e.g. Avalon vs Wilson) And probably different again for speaker like Magico that isn't ported?
NorthStar
New member
Now that we have some basic guidelines for speaker distance vs sitting distance, we need to start from the beginning.
* Remove all room treatments - especially bass traps.
* Move speakers into the middle of the room. Push both speaker together and into the middle of the room or better yet, at the opposite end of the room from where they are now. You don't want the speakers influencing your process.
* Clear the area from the front left and right corners and along each side wall. You need a clear path to walk.
* You need a roll of blue painters tape.
* Let's get ready!
* Now starting in the far left hand corner (the corner behind where your left speaker will be), stand right up in that left corner so your back is touching the front wall and your right shoulder is close to the side wall.
* HEAD UP - EYES FORWARD/STRAIGHT AHEAD - now, SLOWLY walk in a straight line, along the side wall repeating the words "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE" over and over and over again.
* As you slowly move away from the front wall you will hear your voice change. Reflections will become less pronounced.
* As you move along, you will reach a point where you don't hear the reflections. STOP. Bend down and mark that area with a small strip of blue tape on the floor. Right in front of your toes works!
* Now, CONTINUE walking and saying "one, one, one, one, one" and you will hear your voice start to hit the back wall and pick up reflections again. This is typically around 18 inches to 3 feet from the piece of tape you put on the floor. STOP. Mark that position with blue tape.
* Now, walk back a little and stand in between the two pieces of tape you have on the floor.
* Turn 90 degrees and walk SLOWLY INTO the middle of the room saying "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE". Remember to look straight ahead.
* You will hear your voice reflections reduce as you walk away from the side wall and into the middle of the room.
* When you feel that you are not hearing much reflection and your voice seems whole, more natural, STOP and mark that spot on the floor with blue tape.
* Continue walking into the room saying "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE" until you hear your voice picked up by the FAR side wall. STOP. Mark that spot with blue tape.
* Now you have the boundaries of what should look like a rectangle. Mark it off with blue tape. Your end result will be something that looks like a rectangle about 3 to 5 feet out from the back wall and a foot or so away from the side wall to about three feet into the room.
* THIS RECTANGLE is a GREAT starting point for placing your speaker. It will be the spot in the room which has the least amount of side wall and back wall resonances.
* Repeat the procedure above for the other side of the room.
* Now, keep these marked areas on the ground for a while. You will want to tweak the placement of the speakers perhaps for more bass (back wall reflections) or more imaging (side wall). To be honest, I rarely have my speakers outside the rectangle. Maybe a back inch or something hanging over....but not the drivers/tweeter.
There are lots of different methods out there for speaker setup. Some believe in using the speakers to voice (pushing both against the back wall and move the left speaker out into the room listening for the least amount of back wall/side wall interaction and repeating for the other speaker). Others prefer to rely on pure measurements. There are many ways. Experiment and find what works best for you.
Good luck and enjoy.
* Remove all room treatments - especially bass traps.
* Move speakers into the middle of the room. Push both speaker together and into the middle of the room or better yet, at the opposite end of the room from where they are now. You don't want the speakers influencing your process.
* Clear the area from the front left and right corners and along each side wall. You need a clear path to walk.
* You need a roll of blue painters tape.
* Let's get ready!
* Now starting in the far left hand corner (the corner behind where your left speaker will be), stand right up in that left corner so your back is touching the front wall and your right shoulder is close to the side wall.
* HEAD UP - EYES FORWARD/STRAIGHT AHEAD - now, SLOWLY walk in a straight line, along the side wall repeating the words "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE" over and over and over again.
* As you slowly move away from the front wall you will hear your voice change. Reflections will become less pronounced.
* As you move along, you will reach a point where you don't hear the reflections. STOP. Bend down and mark that area with a small strip of blue tape on the floor. Right in front of your toes works!
* Now, CONTINUE walking and saying "one, one, one, one, one" and you will hear your voice start to hit the back wall and pick up reflections again. This is typically around 18 inches to 3 feet from the piece of tape you put on the floor. STOP. Mark that position with blue tape.
* Now, walk back a little and stand in between the two pieces of tape you have on the floor.
* Turn 90 degrees and walk SLOWLY INTO the middle of the room saying "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE". Remember to look straight ahead.
* You will hear your voice reflections reduce as you walk away from the side wall and into the middle of the room.
* When you feel that you are not hearing much reflection and your voice seems whole, more natural, STOP and mark that spot on the floor with blue tape.
* Continue walking into the room saying "ONE, ONE, ONE, ONE" until you hear your voice picked up by the FAR side wall. STOP. Mark that spot with blue tape.
* Now you have the boundaries of what should look like a rectangle. Mark it off with blue tape. Your end result will be something that looks like a rectangle about 3 to 5 feet out from the back wall and a foot or so away from the side wall to about three feet into the room.
* THIS RECTANGLE is a GREAT starting point for placing your speaker. It will be the spot in the room which has the least amount of side wall and back wall resonances.
* Repeat the procedure above for the other side of the room.
* Now, keep these marked areas on the ground for a while. You will want to tweak the placement of the speakers perhaps for more bass (back wall reflections) or more imaging (side wall). To be honest, I rarely have my speakers outside the rectangle. Maybe a back inch or something hanging over....but not the drivers/tweeter.
There are lots of different methods out there for speaker setup. Some believe in using the speakers to voice (pushing both against the back wall and move the left speaker out into the room listening for the least amount of back wall/side wall interaction and repeating for the other speaker). Others prefer to rely on pure measurements. There are many ways. Experiment and find what works best for you.
Good luck and enjoy.
NorthStar
New member
Hello Bob! I like the providence of your avatar. Very positive.
Thx Steve. ..."Providence", that's a very nice word; I use it quite often in French. The word comes from Latin providentia.
None. The Wilson method is OUTSTANDING. It is taught to all their dealers. Another reason why I'm a huge Wilson fan!! Full credit to Wilson! I prefer their method over the Sonus Faber method and even Jim Smith's or many others out there.
There is no secret setup (although Sonus Faber would like you to think there is!
) The key is to read and understand WHY you are doing things a certain way. There is no one perfect way for every speaker as you've pointed out. Rear ported (Wilson) vs downward firing port (Revel) was not that different to be honest. Ported vs non-ported - again - not a big difference. The non-ported gives me more flexibility to be closer to the back wall without dramatic negative affects. But at the end of the day - ported or not ported, rear ported or downward firing - the principles of reflection still apply because all the speakers are fundamentally the same. Music comes from the front of the speaker. Yes, yes, there are exceptions like Magnepan (they sound as good from behind the speaker as they do in front!) and MBL...but I'm speaking of the majority of speakers.
Minimize the impact of the room, follow the 1.1 to 1.25 guiding principle and you're well on your way.
All the treatments in the world won't compensate for poor speaker placement.
Paul/Steve - try the steps mentioned in post 49 and let me know how it works. Make sure you get the speakers and treatments out of the way. Start from scratch. You will be surprised at how well it works.
Good luck.
Good luck.
thats a good plan mike. but my room has way more issues that make it harder than that.
ill get some pics tomm as im moving some stuff around. but any help is much appreciated. i now see that i opened things up by moving everything back and its better than before but i opened up a reflection can of worms.lmao!!! thank you very much for all that great info.!!!!
highEndguy
New member
my room is too small for it, compared with all your rooms, mine looks like a closet
Now I just want to cry .........
, just kidding, I'm very happy with the sound and thats what is important, right ?
my room is too small for it, compared with all your rooms, mine looks like a closet
Now I just want to cry .........
That's right Nelson! There is a dealer in Phoenix - LMC - with a massive massive store. He purposely built rooms of various sizes - starting with 10 x 10 - so people could see and hear different gear in similar sized rooms to what they have at home. Now that's smart!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Thanks for this link. I am curious to have a read of this.
It's been awhile since I took a reading & things have changed a little system & room wise. Although I'm happy with how everything sounds, over time the mind does acclimatise to subtleties. (Some in the cable industry take advantage of this phenomenon when playing the extended burn-in argument.)
Hopefully I remembered to save the post treatment curves.
Back then I use the miniDSP UMIK-1 USB MIC & REW - Room EQ Wizard v5. Note to refresh myself.
socfan12
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3,579
Thanks for this link. I am curious to have a read of this.
It's been awhile since I took a reading & things have changed a little system & room wise. Although I'm happy with how everything sounds, over time the mind does acclimatise to subtleties. (Some in the cable industry take advantage of this phenomenon when playing the extended burn-in argument.)
Hopefully I remembered to save the post treatment curves.
Back then I use the miniDSP UMIK-1 USB MIC & REW - Room EQ Wizard v5. Note to refresh myself.
View attachment 5179
Steve, I just took delivery of the Analyzer Pro yesterday. I hope to use it to understand how to treat my room. Hopefully this weekend I'll take my first measurements.
Allen...From what I can see I like about the Analyzer Pro. The package is complete with cabling, also the software looks more intuitive. Nice microphone stand too.
Please keep us updated.
Allen that is awesome!!!! learn how to use that baby!!.lol. right now i just started today, little by little im fixing my room up. getting rid of the clutter, like hanging my tv and making a wall shelf to get rid of the tv stand altogether. getting a better throw rug. trying to figure some end tables so i can ditch the coffee table, instead of having to move it everytime i want to hear music. get some good curtains, its gonna be tough but ill make it better. then some measurements, so i know where to put the panels and traps, and ill be very happy!!!