My system: MBL - Vac - Burmester - Air Force One - Stealth Audio cables and more set-up

Great system. Would love to hear your thoughts on the major sonic differences between your CAT JL3 amps and the VACs that you have now? Many thanks. Ash
 
Mike said:
Dev - were the MBL's problematic to setup?

Have you been to Sarasota to visit with Kevin and Brent? I was at an audiophile meeting with Brent last night. If you do come down here, let me know. You're welcome to come over.

Lastly, I wanted to pick your brain on something....I am having an awful time with my new VAC phi200's producing an excessive amount of sibilance. I have rolled the tubes. I have tried them in two different systems. I have tried different cables. Different sources. Different preamps. I'm at a loss. On some tracks it's worse than others. But you can hear far too much "sssss"' "tttttt". Listening to James Taylor sing "Blossom" for example, the song becomes almost unlistenable. It seems worse on the Magico's, but both systems, it's bad.

I'm going to give them another 200 hours and then see. Just wanted to see if you had any thoughts. Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, MBL's have been the easiest speakers I have owned to date to set-up. Finding the right amplification to satisfy me was another story - it was a learning process and costly - as in everything others might not like.

Yes I have been to Sarasota but haven't visited Vac's location, thanks for the invite.

Your Vac phi200's, how many hours currently on them? unfortunately I do not really have any first hand experience to provide but what you are mentioning would be really annoying. Since you were at a meeting with Brent did you discuss this matter with him? If so what was his thoughts. Have you spoken with Kevin about this? If so what were his thoughts. You being in the same area relatively speaking would be a no brainer to just go on over and find out, possibly your amps need further break-in or just your pair. See if they have a pair that they can lend you and do a quick comparison. I'm sure they must have a room set-up, bring your amps there and see. You really already mentioned numerous trouble shooting options I would have recommended, my thinking if it's still there while doing these as you have mentioned it's either to do with break-in or just the amps themselves.
 
ashandger said:
Great system. Would love to hear your thoughts on the major sonic differences between your CAT JL3 amps and the VACs that you have now? Many thanks. Ash
Click to expand...

Hi Ash, thanks. Ya that might get some up-set as I have done in the past on other sites. Don't miss the CAT's at all, the Vac's are by far my favourite and preferred.

What does your system consist of.
 
iamhifi said:
The dedicated audio room is on the works for sure I will post Pictures, moving air conditioner unit, closets etc
Click to expand...

Congrats! Can't wait to see it. Talk to Jeff at AV Solutions for acoustic treatments. He is helping me put together some things. He knows his sh!t.
 
iamhifi said:
The dedicated audio room is on the works for sure I will post Pictures, moving air conditioner unit, closets etc
Click to expand...

Ha! Ha! that's too funny :) What we will do for our audio, I look forward to the pic's. I recently moved my furnace and hot water tank 12ft so my room could be longer. I actually ended up getting a new very quite furnace too, only made sense.
 
iamhifi said:
The dedicated audio room is on the works for sure I will post Pictures, moving air conditioner unit, closets etc
Click to expand...

Congrats, Angel! I did the same late last year. Still working on it - need to measure it and get some treatments for it. It takes a while, but it's definitely worth it!

Please post pics!
 
DEV,

Killer system!!!! Sorry for the barrage of questions below, but you have definitely tried a lot of stuff. Your journey is what most of us aspire to. Thanks in advance for sharing!

What music do you listen to?

What other cables have you tried? Tara? Purist? Wireworld? Every review has Tara Labs cables. Any thoughts on those? What specifically do you like about Stealth cables?

How many speaker placement positions have you tried? Have you measured your room? If so, how flat is it?

How long does it take for the system to settle in after moving things around?

Have you tried to place on the long wall and short wall? How close to the walls are the speakers? How far apart are the speakers?

Amp-wise, how well does VAC grip the speaker? Big difference in grip of SS and tube amps if you are rocking out?
If VAC wasn't in the stars what is your 2nd favorite amp? 3rd favorite amp?

Are the Ultra 5 Stillpoints threaded ? Are they flat on spiked to the carpet? Sound-wise, are they a component level upgrade, or are people exaggerating?

As a knock against MBL, many people bring up that they find the speakers less coherent unless played loud. Have you ever experienced this with some amps, especially low powered amps, resulting in tonal balance that is off? How low can your system play and still sound realistic?

Any thoughts on 101 e mk 2?

Try any other CD players other than Esoteric?

Ever try subwoofers?

I know this is a lot of questions, so THANK YOU in advance for sharing.

And congrats on an WONDROUS system!

PS. Your wife must have some kind of a jewelry collection for all the toys you got :)
 
knghifi said:
Dev, It's great to finally see your system. It's simply FABULOUS!
Click to expand...

Hi knghifi,

great that you decided to join, look forward to you contributing. You should post a new member hi intro and then go the Members System and post some pic's of your set-up, "specially the TAD's" would enjoy to see.
 
Boogieman said:
DEV,

Killer system!!!! Sorry for the barrage of questions below, but you have definitely tried a lot of stuff. Your journey is what most of us aspire to. Thanks in advance for sharing!

What music do you listen to?

What other cables have you tried? Tara? Purist? Wireworld? Every review has Tara Labs cables. Any thoughts on those? What specifically do you like about Stealth cables?

How many speaker placement positions have you tried? Have you measured your room? If so, how flat is it?

How long does it take for the system to settle in after moving things around?

Have you tried to place on the long wall and short wall? How close to the walls are the speakers? How far apart are the speakers?

Amp-wise, how well does VAC grip the speaker? Big difference in grip of SS and tube amps if you are rocking out?
If VAC wasn't in the stars what is your 2nd favorite amp? 3rd favorite amp?

Are the Ultra 5 Stillpoints threaded ? Are they flat on spiked to the carpet? Sound-wise, are they a component level upgrade, or are people exaggerating?

As a knock against MBL, many people bring up that they find the speakers less coherent unless played loud. Have you ever experienced this with some amps, especially low powered amps, resulting in tonal balance that is off? How low can your system play and still sound realistic?

Any thoughts on 101 e mk 2?

Try any other CD players other than Esoteric?

Ever try subwoofers?

I know this is a lot of questions, so THANK YOU in advance for sharing.

And congrats on an WONDROUS system!

PS. Your wife must have some kind of a jewelry collection for all the toys you got :)
Click to expand...


Holly crap! Boogieman :rofl: nothing like only asking a few questions :roflmao: but thanks :D I'll try my best.

#1 music, variety as long as it has my feet tapping - body moving and sometimes catching myself trying to sing along :lol: and get up and boogie with my girls. Mostly Jazz - male and female vocal - big band - blues - rock from Elvis - PinkFloyd - and some classical

#2 what you mentioned along with some others like Virtual Dynamics Gen. Have not tried all of these with this exact set-up - down my journey found I liked Stealth - sonically across the band including flexibility and fit and finish.
I'm really HAPPY with my most resent Sakra V12 IC's and Royale speaker cables - they are just so sexy looking - statement ;)

#3 Before having my MBL's in this same room I had numerous box speakers; Salons, WP's, Eggleston to name a few. At the same time I had another set-up in my designated listening room - Avalon Isis speakers with ARC and VTL gear. I tried many locations but if you look at my pics I was pretty limited due to the opening

This is what happened, I always drooled every time when I saw pics of MBL's - I wanted to get a pair and fine out for myself what they sounded like. I had owned my Isis speakers for some 3 years and tried this and that, was selling them and going to put the MBL's there.

So I get the MBL's new, figured best to move the Andra 2's I had at the time to break them in - hadn't yet sold the Isis speakers so I didn't want to disturb three + years of fine tuning.

Just put them in the same spot where I have found others to work, wasn't fussy about locating them at this stage. I was shocked from the get go with the sonics, really different from what I was use to but I have also owned Mag 20's and Martin Logan so I have a broad range of first hand knowledge.

So I sold the Isis shortly after receiving the MBL's - I had a pair of ARC 610T's and Ref 750 VTL's I was looking forward to trying but this guy wanted everything or nothing including my Teres table, so I sold everything.

I was measuring and getting ready to put the MBL's in that designated room, wife catches wind and says no those are the my favourite to date over anything else. So they stayed put and the rest well your reading it.

#4 no I have not measured, refer to my comments in my opening about the room.

#5 back wall currently 53" - between speaker to speaker 103" left speaker 45"

#6 Vac's for me are a match made in heaven :) I have had so many and the SS base was tighter on some ya but no way sounded nor felt as realistic. I have no complaints with base and feel it's superior :)

#7 Ultra 5's - I highly recommend - refer to my thread started http://audioshark.org/general-audio-discussion-15/stillpoint-ultra-5s-4097.html


As a knock against MBL, many people bring up that they find the speakers less coherent unless played loud. Have you ever experienced this with some amps, especially low powered amps, resulting in tonal balance that is off? How low can your system play and still sound realistic?


#8 ya because they hear them paired up with MBL amps. I found that with numerous amps I had. Bryston 28's were the first amps I found to be able to play at very low levels and still sound proper and totally engaging, says allot for the amps. I voiced to numerous sharing my thoughts, some laughed but then reviews started coming out, people trying because I bet them and guess what? Well just read all the raving articles now and who's doing the laughing now :lol:

Refer back to my comments upon first time hearing the Vac's on my out of the country trip

#9 mine were a end of the run so parts of mine are MKII, I haven't heard side by side but have heard a 101E and because it wasn't in my system can't say 100% but at the going prices I would op for them and use the extra coin for feeding them :)

#10 Other cd, oh yes I went crazy but because my preference is vinyl went all out in the direction. Why have a 100+ K just sitting collecting dust.
My tuner competes with the best of best red book, I prefer it over my current when the right music comes on and that's the biggest problem because have no control.

#11 subs, don't need them in this room. I did try a few, very hard to keep up with these speakers and blend properly. Designated room would provide more flexibility to play with

I'm done I think, wow! :woot:


Wife has me ;)

So what does your system consist of?



 
dev said:
Holly crap! Boogieman :rofl: nothing like only asking a few questions :roflmao: but thanks :D I'll try my best.

#1 music, variety as long as it has my feet tapping - body moving and sometimes catching myself trying to sing along :lol: and get up and boogie with my girls. Mostly Jazz - male and female vocal - big band - blues - rock from Elvis - PinkFloyd - and some classical

#2 what you mentioned along with some others like Virtual Dynamics Gen. Have not tried all of these with this exact set-up - down my journey found I liked Stealth - sonically across the band including flexibility and fit and finish.
I'm really HAPPY with my most resent Sakra V12 IC's and Royale speaker cables - they are just so sexy looking - statement ;)

#3 Before having my MBL's in this same room I had numerous box speakers; Salons, WP's, Eggleston to name a few. At the same time I had another set-up in my designated listening room - Avalon Isis speakers with ARC and VTL gear. I tried many locations but if you look at my pics I was pretty limited due to the opening

This is what happened, I always drooled every time when I saw pics of MBL's - I wanted to get a pair and fine out for myself what they sounded like. I had owned my Isis speakers for some 3 years and tried this and that, was selling them and going to put the MBL's there.

So I get the MBL's new, figured best to move the Andra 2's I had at the time to break them in - hadn't yet sold the Isis speakers so I didn't want to disturb three + years of fine tuning.

Just put them in the same spot where I have found others to work, wasn't fussy about locating them at this stage. I was shocked from the get go with the sonics, really different from what I was use to but I have also owned Mag 20's and Martin Logan so I have a broad range of first hand knowledge.

So I sold the Isis shortly after receiving the MBL's - I had a pair of ARC 610T's and Ref 750 VTL's I was looking forward to trying but this guy wanted everything or nothing including my Teres table, so I sold everything.

I was measuring and getting ready to put the MBL's in that designated room, wife catches wind and says no those are the my favourite to date over anything else. So they stayed put and the rest well your reading it.

#4 no I have not measured, refer to my comments in my opening about the room.

#5 back wall currently 53" - between speaker to speaker 103" left speaker 45"

#6 Vac's for me are a match made in heaven :) I have had so many and the SS base was tighter on some ya but no way sounded nor felt as realistic. I have no complaints with base and feel it's superior :)

#7 Ultra 5's - I highly recommend - refer to my thread started


As a knock against MBL, many people bring up that they find the speakers less coherent unless played loud. Have you ever experienced this with some amps, especially low powered amps, resulting in tonal balance that is off? How low can your system play and still sound realistic?


#8 ya because they hear them paired up with MBL amps. I found that with numerous amps I had. Bryston 28's were the first amps I found to be able to play at very low levels and still sound proper and totally engaging, says allot for the amps. I voiced to numerous sharing my thoughts, some laughed but then reviews started coming out, people trying because I bet them and guess what? Well just read all the raving articles now and who's doing the laughing now :lol:

Refer back to my comments upon first time hearing the Vac's on my out of the country trip

#9 mine were a end of the run so parts of mine are MKII, I haven't heard side by side but have heard a 101E and because it wasn't in my system can't say 100% but at the going prices I would op for them and use the extra coin for feeding them :)

#10 Other cd, oh yes I went crazy but because my preference is vinyl went all out in the direction. Why have a 100+ K just sitting collecting dust.
My tuner competes with the best of best red book, I prefer it over my current when the right music comes on and that's the biggest problem because have no control.

#11 subs, don't need them in this room. I did try a few, very hard to keep up with these speakers and blend properly. Designated room would provide more flexibility to play with

I'm done I think, wow! :woot:


Wife has me ;)

So what does your system consist of?
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks a lot for taking the time! I'm also running the MBL 101 E with old Bryston and a BAT tube preamp. My system is a time machine already, so I can only imagine what yours is like.

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of moving the gear in and out like you, partly because I have to buy my wife fancy gifts every time I buy gear...But anyways, sounds like the amp for me to shoot for is the Bryston 28B, without spending $85K on the VAC or $120K on the Reference MBL.

Thanks again!
 
dev said:
Hi Mike, MBL's have been the easiest speakers I have owned to date to set-up. Finding the right amplification to satisfy me was another story - it was a learning process and costly - as in everything others might not like.

Yes I have been to Sarasota but haven't visited Vac's location, thanks for the invite.

Your Vac phi200's, how many hours currently on them? unfortunately I do not really have any first hand experience to provide but what you are mentioning would be really annoying. Since you were at a meeting with Brent did you discuss this matter with him? If so what was his thoughts. Have you spoken with Kevin about this? If so what were his thoughts. You being in the same area relatively speaking would be a no brainer to just go on over and find out, possibly your amps need further break-in or just your pair. See if they have a pair that they can lend you and do a quick comparison. I'm sure they must have a room set-up, bring your amps there and see. You really already mentioned numerous trouble shooting options I would have recommended, my thinking if it's still there while doing these as you have mentioned it's either to do with break-in or just the amps themselves.
Click to expand...

Determined not to give up on the VAC phi200's, I decided to put the Goldlion KT88's in with some 1950 Sylvania 6SN7's and dust off my old APC S15 (APC's answer to high end audio) and plug both amps into it. Well, let me tell you, the difference was not subtle. My VAC amps may have gone from worst to first. The sibilance - gone. Brightness - gone. Midrange - improved.

Then I began wondering which of the three changes made the difference? So I started backing one out at a time. At the end of the day, clean AC was the key. All three made an impact, but clean AC was 90% of it.

I've ordered some MIT Z-Duplex wall outlets to try.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Boogieman said:
Hey, thanks a lot for taking the time! I'm also running the MBL 101 E with old Bryston and a BAT tube preamp. My system is a time machine already, so I can only imagine what yours is like.

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of moving the gear in and out like you, partly because I have to buy my wife fancy gifts every time I buy gear...But anyways, sounds like the amp for me to shoot for is the Bryston 28B, without spending $85K on the VAC or $120K on the Reference MBL.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...


No problem, you are welcome.

You gotta post some pics -

I never tried a Bat pre with the Bryston's but if you are already using know. Ya the Bryston's are a steal at their price and you will be absolutely pleased, playing at very moderate too low volumes was absolutely marvelous and my preference to all of those other SS amps - when you turn the volume up it just goes louder with keeping all those sonics.

I had guys getting rid of their MBL 9008's once they heard the comparison with their own MBL's - I took a bit of heat for that one but they saved allot of money. Oh well I just call it the way it is.

No need to even think about the MKII's either, use that money to upgrade the amps and pre first - ensure you use xlr IC connections also. Stealth product really works well with these speakers.

Don't waste your time even thinking about MBL 9008's or flagship 9011's if you like to listen at low volume or moderate, I know because I had them :woot:

Ensure when looking to get a pair of 28 Squared that they are current design because there were some changes done along the way - pair them up with a Vac Sig MK2a pre and you will be in heaven :) Many have done this and some gone the next step replacing with the Vac 450's and all reported never thought such was possible.

That's too funny about your wife :roflmao:
 
Mike said:
Determined not to give up on the VAC phi200's, I decided to put the Goldlion KT88's in with some 1950 Sylvania 6SN7's and dust off my old APC S15 (APC's answer to high end audio) and plug both amps into it. Well, let me tell you, the difference was not subtle. My VAC amps may have gone from worst to first. The sibilance - gone. Brightness - gone. Midrange - improved.

Then I began wondering which of the three changes made the difference? So I started backing one out at a time. At the end of the day, clean AC was the key. All three made an impact, but clean AC was 90% of it.

I've ordered some MIT Z-Duplex wall outlets to try.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...


Hi Mike, that's great! AC and vibration are both key so I have found in this wonderful hobby :exciting:

I originally had 2 Torus RM20's which were then plugged into their own designated line - had an amp plugged into each. I was more looking for protection of my investment, any positive benefits most welcomed - as long as there weren't any negatives. They seemed to work well with other amps SS.

I still had them when I got my VAC 450's and just automatically plugged them in, ran them in this configuration for sometime and then decided to plug into the wall see hear if there was any difference, well there was.

Another person whom I had kinda swayed to get a pair of the same amps was really enjoying but also wanted them to be protected and upon some recommendation decided to try a PS Audio Power Plant 10.

He was thrilled saying the amps even sound better, he ordered another one and now has two.

So my thoughts, "scratching my head saying how could they sound even better" was just happy knowing my investment would be protected, I got them and he is correct the amps improved sonically so I'm very happy just knowing they are protected and receive the proper regulated current at all times along with the crap taken out.


So this is something I would recommend for you, get one and try - You can see pics of mine in my opening page underneath my Vac's.


I used Sistrum 101 platforms for amps stands, marvelous too and put the plate which adjustable high enough so the P10 will fit under :D

Have you ever tried Sistrum product? amazing results specially under tube gear
 
Just to clarify - you are using one or two PS Audio P10's for your amps?

P10's are power regeneration vs my APC which I think is power conditioning?

The Entech line noise analyzer I bought on ebay for $70 - might be the best $70 I spent. I was aghast at the amount of noise even on my dedicated 20 amp circuit line. The APC S15 reduced line noise by 99.997% according to the Entech measurements. ALL my amps sound better - much better - plugged into the APC S15.

Does the P10 have battery backup? That's one thing I love about the APC. Living in Florida with our crummy Peace River Electric, we get brown outs on a perfectly sunny day. When storms come, power outages are the norm.

Lastly, I wonder - and I definitely don't know - whether some amps are much more susceptible to dirty AC than other amps and specifically, whether tube amps are more susceptible. I'm curious.


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