My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience

a.wayne said:
Does digital pre ringing exist ..?
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Audibly or in hyper-active imagination seeing>oh yes I can hear it now ?

One can probe the filter with an illegal signal to observe temporal/frequency behavior, or frighten children. Depending on need.
 
a.wayne said:
doubt its groove echo you are hearing most likey tape print thru , or a serious azimuth issue
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No azimuth issue (I'm fairly confident there: My analog system was installed by a very knowledgeable dealer (first) and then fine tuned by a vinyl fan friend of mine).

Tape print through is something new to me and could possibly be what I am hearing.

In any case whether it is called Groove Echo or tape print thru, I do not hear that when playing the digital file.
 
a.wayne said:
Is that an Yes ...? :)
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Yes you can't hear it, unlike audible groove echo.
Not surprised you didn't know about it. If you noticed, the paper by CBS Labs was from 1971 (vinyls heyday), when you might not have been around or but a wee lad.
 
nicoff said:
No azimuth issue (I'm fairly confident there: My analog system was installed by a very knowledgeable dealer (first) and then fine tuned by a vinyl fan friend of mine).

Tape print through is something new to me and could possibly be what I am hearing.

In any case whether it is called Groove Echo or tape print thru, I do not hear that when playing the digital file.
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Mr Wayne is making stuff up now. Groove echo is very much a part of vinyl, but those folks are immunized against all its maladies. What you and I easily hear, they simply think music is supposed to sound like all those vinyl distortions.
I admit, while some are pleasing (my Elvis 57 LP spanks the CD release), it's not Hi Fidelity. But preferences are supreme, people can prefer whatever they wish.

cheers,

AJ
 
Does digital have pre echo / pre - ringing , It does and the answer is yes , as to pre echo at the cutting master thats old news and well known , its not an issue at pressing ...

As to digital pre ringing/ pre-Echo ,

since you are not designing and making digital units you would not have been aware , its one of the major reason we have digital noise and brightness, heard by most audiophiles with very good speakers , the ones without processors ...



:)
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Mr Wayne is making stuff up now. Groove echo is very much a part of vinyl, but those folks are immunized against all its maladies. What you and I easily hear, they simply think music is supposed to sound like all those vinyl distortions.
I admit, while some are pleasing (my Elvis 57 LP spanks the CD release), it's not Hi Fidelity. But preferences are supreme, people can prefer whatever they wish.

cheers,

AJ
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Says Mr Conjecture ....
 
a.wayne said:
as to pre echo at the cutting master thats old news and well known , its not an issue at pressing ...
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http://www.pressingvinyl.co.uk/index.php/2015/03/causes-pre-echo-groove-echo/
Pre-echo on a record is somewhat of a phenomenon, it is not commonly known what causes a faint audio signal on a record slightly before the main recording.
It is often the result of excessive groove swing and depth changes on the lacquer from stereo width in the bass frequencies. This is one of the reasons as to why bass frequencies are mono’d on a vinyl record.
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Of course, this doesn't affect inferior hearing/systems
 
a.wayne said:
since you are not designing and making digital units you would not have been aware , its one of the major reason we have digital noise and brightness, heard by most audiophiles shuning digital and with very good speakers , the ones without processors ...
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Ah, so purely useless anecdotal "evidence" from the most susceptible low hanging fruit.
Well, wasn't expecting an AES paper.

Btw, how many digital classes did you take in EE school?
 
a.wayne said:
So with my ears and your speakers do we have a Pre Ringing null
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My speakers go well above 20k, your hearing doesn't.
But that wouldn't stop you "hearing" the "ringing" you read about in audio comic books with illegal signals above your hearing.
No limits to the imagination, unlike your ears.:D
 
a.wayne said:
How many did you skip ....? :)
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So the answer that applies to both of us is none. Cool.

I'm not denying that digital can and does cause some serious psychogenic drama for a fringe few. That's why there is the whole field of psychiatry. I empathize.
For the rest of the earth, analog soundwaves that were previously digitally encoded, do not create that kind of psychogenic melodrama.
I think the best way to explain it will be the Youtube video of you picking out the "bright/harsh" "digital" soundwaves coming out of the speakers, when you don't know priori, whether A, B or X is the vinyl or vinyl>ADA loop.
It ought to be a doozy.:hey:
See ya in November.
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AJ Soundfield said:
How low can you hear concert hall like lateralisation with you vinyl/speaker rig?

What concert halls do you frequent Mr Wayne?

edit, just realized you probably have no idea what that is. Here ya go
http://www.acoustics.asn.au/conference_proceedings/AAS2008/papers/p47.pdf
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Ever recorded a symphony? you may be able to repeat anecdotal musings and tap dance like fred Astaire , but as usual no game ...

1. Digital pre ringing is audible
2. Digital dynamic range is overstated because there is no advantage over analog due to dynamic compression
3. Digital is silent analog is not but groove noise as an issue diminishes with noise floor , here digital artifacts play up too ..
4. Analog Dynamic range exceeds 20-20K
5. Wow and flutter is easily overcome on anything above play play level ..

as before analog TT is still here because its negatives can be surpassed by its positives, thats is cutting , splicing , re clocking , dither , reclocking is not natural and as processing speed improves so does the digital animal , its not as cut and dry as you would like to make it thou and nail dragging thru a groove is still with us ..


Ciao
 
a.wayne said:
How many did you skip ....? :)
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AJ Soundfield said:
Mr Wayne is making stuff up now. Groove echo is very much a part of vinyl, but those folks are immunized against all its maladies. What you and I easily hear, they simply think music is supposed to sound like all those vinyl distortions.
I admit, while some are pleasing (my Elvis 57 LP spanks the CD release), it's not Hi Fidelity. But preferences are supreme, people can prefer whatever they wish.

cheers,

AJ
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There is a cd ? I have heard it on tape and vinyl but mine is dsd 64 download From acoustic sounds. Aj want dac do you use ? Is your chain pure meaning no dsp and does it play dsd ?
 
AJ Soundfield said:
So the answer that applies to both of us is none. Cool.

I'm not denying that digital can and does cause some serious psychogenic drama for a fringe few. That's why there is the whole field of psychiatry. I empathize.
For the rest of the earth, analog soundwaves that were previously digitally encoded, do not create that kind of psychogenic melodrama.
I think the best way to explain it will be the Youtube video of you picking out the "bright/harsh" "digital" soundwaves coming out of the speakers, when you don't know priori, whether A, B or X is the vinyl or vinyl>ADA loop.
It ought to be a doozy.:hey:
See ya in November.
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More Conjecture ...

BTW less see how well you do as well , as you claim not to hear bad Class-D sound vs A/AB ..

less see how well your anecdotal ramblings do ....
 
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