MSB new pricing model

Kuoppis said:
Yes Ken, but only a bit [emoji3].

Unfortunately, I’m speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another company’s portfolio approach. And I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced.

But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, there’s no future proof path, and you’re always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. That’s hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But it’s the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


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Ha, I’m glad we got that cleared up! :D

There’s a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
Ha, I’m glad we got that cleared up! :D

There’s a lot of truth in your last paragraph.

Ken
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It’s more bearable when it hits others, but hurts if you’re in the hole yourself.

Everyone in the hobby for more than a decade has probably been burned at least once.


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Kuoppis said:
Yes Ken, but only a bit [emoji3].

Unfortunately, I’m speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another company’s portfolio approach. I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced. Based on Cournot’s law, it’s unsustainable. The market will always find the balance between price and value (demand).

But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, there’s no future proof path, and you’re always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. That’s hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But it’s the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


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That other company by any chance a loudspeakers company? [emoji57]

It’s difficult to be smart with the money in this hobby. I just always assume minimum of 50% loss from the time I buy until the time I sell and treat it as entertainment. Just don’t tell my wife about it. Lol
 
kzhtoo said:
That other company by any chance a loudspeakers company? [emoji57]

It’s difficult to be smart with the money in this hobby. I just always assume minimum of 50% loss from the time I buy until the time I sell and treat it as entertainment. Just don’t tell my wife about it. Lol
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Kzhtoo, that would just be one example [emoji23].

And I think you got it right. It’s not about being cautions and safe, as with investments. It’s about getting the kicks out of your system, whatever it is. Still hurts when you’re cutting something loose at half of what you put in.


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Kuoppis said:
Kzhtoo, that would just be one example [emoji23].

And I think you got it right. It’s not about being cautions and safe, as with investments. It’s about getting the kicks out of your system, whatever it is. Still hurts when you’re cutting something loose at half of what you put in.


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It goes without saying I love my discrete. Hours and hours of dynamic, fatigue free music even though I stream 100% of the time (some people feel Renderer V2 input is slightly inferior to pro USB module).
 
kzhtoo said:
It goes without saying I love my discrete. Hours and hours of dynamic, fatigue free music even though I stream 100% of the time (some people feel Renderer V2 input is slightly inferior to pro USB module).
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I will certainly try the Pro USB input module on my Select DAC if and when I move to a new server where the preferred connection is USB (e.g. Taiko Extreme or Aurender N20).

Ken
 
FWIW, I received an email from MSB saying they are updating their site and (supposedly) a new price list will be available at the site
 
Adyc said:
We are not talking about car industry here. More fair comparison is the other audio manufacturers. For example, MBL haven’t refreshed their Reference Line for a long time. But the prices keep increasing. I would be over the moon if MBL decreases the prices of 101X. Unfortunately, it is the opposite.
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MBL is also not in the habit of churning products either which is good. Too many speaker and cable companies keep "replacement" products that undercuts the value of the used market.
 
No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.
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Finally a response that is reasonable and not self serving - well done Mike.

Reading this thread, I am completely amused at all the complaining that MSB is going to reduce prices. That is a good thing.
 
seriouslyhifi said:
No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.
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I don’t know. If you’re back ordered 4 to 6 weeks with current pricing, it’s hard to see the reason why they’d want reduced pricing.

Reducing production cost is one of, if not the most important basic manufacturing principles to improve profit margin. If production becomes more efficient, why MSB wouldn’t want to enjoy this increased profit margin especially if most models are backordered?
 
Try ordering any model and you will have that answer.
There is something called greed and then there is common business sense. When input costs get reduced and you are on top of the tree in your field, you can be greedy and make more money in the short run or pass the benefits on to your customers with reduced prices, thereby increasing sales further and actually earn more profits and with that goodwill which also translates into money. That is a smart businessman who is not shortsighted.

Human beings mostly look at the dark side when someone is trying to do a good turn and always question the motive. I have been told that MSB have moved to a new and bigger factory as they could not keep up with the demand, ordered new and faster CNC Machines which now do the same job in one third the time, thereby saving time and labour costs and now instead of making batches of 20 Femto 33 clocks are now making batches of 100 Femto 33 clocks which have got the manufacturing cost of clocks down by 25% (they now only manufacturer Femto 33 and Femto 93) instead of 4 to 5 different clocks. Enough said and let us all enjoy the fact there there are yet good people in the industry who also believe in looking after their customers and are there for the long run in this tough industry.
 
seriouslyhifi said:
No change in any Model is confirmed and they have no intention of changing anything at this moment.
The only thing they are doing is give no more choices in every model they manufacture (4 models in total as we all know) but producing only one variation in each, which was their best and because of better production techniques and better efficiency now, they have reduced their price of each of their models by a decent margin and passed on the benefits to us end customers. The Reference DAC will now be available with Femto 33, their best Pre-amp and single Power Supply, the Select 2 with only the Femto 33 and Mono Power Supply, the Premier with only the Femto 93, the Premier Power Supply and better Pre-amp and the Discrete will be as it used to be. A substantial price drop for each of these models as production becomes more efficient and increases quantity. By the way they are backordered by 4 to 6 weeks for most of their models at the moment. No change in any model confirmed.
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Do you know all this for a fact? Do you work for MSB or are you a MSB dealer?

Ken
 
I have been told this by people who know this limited knowledge yet. I have no idea on pricing though and waiting for what they declare finally when available. It is also common knowledge on their Facebook page that they have shifted to a new factory, installed new CNC machines and so on, so that is on the public domain. As far as business goes if they pull this off kudos to them. Let us wait for final answers when available and then take individual calls.
 
seriouslyhifi said:
Try ordering any model and you will have that answer.
There is something called greed and then there is common business sense. When input costs get reduced and you are on top of the tree in your field, you can be greedy and make more money in the short run or pass the benefits on to your customers with reduced prices, thereby increasing sales further and actually earn more profits and with that goodwill which also translates into money. That is a smart businessman who is not shortsighted.

Human beings mostly look at the dark side when someone is trying to do a good turn and always question the motive. I have been told that MSB have moved to a new and bigger factory as they could not keep up with the demand, ordered new and faster CNC Machines which now do the same job in one third the time, thereby saving time and labour costs and now instead of making batches of 20 Femto 33 clocks are now making batches of 100 Femto 33 clocks which have got the manufacturing cost of clocks down by 25% (they now only manufacturer Femto 33 and Femto 93) instead of 4 to 5 different clocks. Enough said and let us all enjoy the fact there there are yet good people in the industry who also believe in looking after their customers and are there for the long run in this tough industry.
Click to expand...

I don’t doubt the new factory and lowering manufacturing cost. Kudos to MSB. Seems very competent team at the helm. I only doubt lowering prices when most models are 4-6 weeks backordered.
 
seriouslyhifi said:
I have been told this by people who know this limited knowledge yet. I have no idea on pricing though and waiting for what they declare finally when available. It is also common knowledge on their Facebook page that they have shifted to a new factory, installed new CNC machines and so on, so that is on the public domain. As far as business goes if they pull this off kudos to them. Let us wait for final answers when available and then take individual calls.
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Everyone knows about MSB’s new factory and CNC machines from their Facebook page. What I was specifically referring to was that you stated in your first post that the price of each of MSB’s DAC models would be substantially reduced due to manufacturing savings from eliminating the options on each model. I was under the impression that the final pricing decisions for each individual DAC model were not yet finalized and that some models may not receive any price reduction.

Ken
 
Apologise but have no firm info on pricing, but was only told that all 4 DAC model prices will be reduced and will now come in only 1 incarnation for each model. Let us wait to hear the actual facts. The other products they manufacture I have no idea at all.
 
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