MSB new pricing model

Interesting dialog and perspectives; btw, many valid. I would suggest we wait until MSB officially communicates if and what price and component packaging changes are being implemented.

Lastly, I would guess that Vince (MSB Sales Executive) has seen or been made aware of the feedback on this thread from MSB customers.
 
BobK said:
Hi SimpleSimonSays,

Why do you say that about Devialet?
Click to expand...


When they came out with their first product ever, the D-Premier, a long time ago, they promised the sun, the moon + their first born... and didn't quite delivered...

If I remember correctly, when the D-Premier came out, it was 16/44.1 wireless only but they had an update coming soon for their unique patented wireless asynchronous up to 24/192 and it never worked properly or happened even (I think!)... Back then, 24/192 wireless was new and a big deal! All you had to do was buy a Mac Mini + Devialet and get perfect sound forever. Sounds familiar? The DevialetChat forum was full of pissed customers... Everything worked but wired only... Not what was promised...

The D-Premier had a lot of "patented" revolutionary unique features that were supposed to be updated free of charge... not quite what happened in reality. And when they finally updated their "core" it wasn't free...

Don't get me wrong, the D-Premier sounded great from day 1 (and probably still does today) but the marketing hype was waaay too good to be true...

I have a feeling that nowadays Devialet is becoming a Bose type company in Apple clothing more interested in $$$ than actual sound. Their "Expert" line hasn't had an significant (read forward thinking) update in a long time.

It is a pretty expensive pizza box after all!

:D
 
SimpleSimonSays said:
When they came out with their first product ever, the D-Premier, a long time ago, they promised the sun, the moon + their first born... and didn't quite delivered...

If I remember correctly, when the D-Premier came out, it was 16/44.1 wireless only but they had an update coming soon for their unique patented wireless asynchronous up to 24/192 and it never worked properly or happened even (I think!)... Back then, 24/192 wireless was new and a big deal! All you had to do was buy a Mac Mini + Devialet and get perfect sound forever. Sounds familiar? The DevialetChat forum was full of pissed customers... Everything worked but wired only... Not what was promised...

The D-Premier had a lot of "patented" revolutionary unique features that were supposed to be updated free of charge... not quite what happened in reality. And when they finally updated their "core" it wasn't free...

Don't get me wrong, the D-Premier sounded great from day 1 (and probably still does today) but the marketing hype was waaay too good to be true...

I have a feeling that nowadays Devialet is becoming a Bose type company in Apple clothing more interested in $$$ than actual sound. Their "Expert" line hasn't had an significant (read forward thinking) update in a long time.

It is a pretty expensive pizza box after all!

:D
Click to expand...

Hi SimpleSimonSays,

No, a very expensive pizza box, but what a pizza! I started out with the D400's and moved on to the E440's, and it didn't cost me a dime. Not even shipping costs. And I'm a nobody and have no connections. I have never experienced customer service of the caliber of Devialet...in any consumer product. They are truly exceptional, and make an amazing product. Please see my post from Oct 25th on this forum (Devialet's Awesome Customer Service). In summary, Devialet replaced my D400's with new E440's, then upgraded my original E440's four years later, all at zero cost to me! Customer service at its finest!

When I purchased my D400's in 2015, those pizza boxes replaced an Aesthetix Calypso preamp, a large two-box Lampizator DAC (DAC + tube PS in separate large, utilitarian black boxes), and mono Brown Electronic Labs amps. I was then using an Auralic Aries streamer and a QNAP server, since replaced by an Innuos Zenith Mk III. It was too much gear in our family room. I now have have two very cool looking, lightweight, great sounding and svelte pizza boxes in place of the Calypso, Lampi and BEL's.

If you read my Devialet post, you'll see that my experience with Devialet is very different from what you've read on other forums. I can only tell you about my personal experience. Saying all that, I'm tiring somewhat of a completely integrated amp/DAC, but not specifically because it's Devialet. We'll be relocating in 2021, and I'm moving back again to a more traditional arrangement. If all goes as planned, top contenders are an MSB DAC, MSB amp and Vivid G2 speakers. I wouldn't bash Devialet too much unless you've had some personal negative experience. I just wanted to share my positive one. Have a great week!
 
To me, the question is whether MSB is going to charge less for the same product. If this is true, I think it is not fair to the previous buyers who support them. I have no problems if they have a new product charging less like Shunyata's Everest. But charging less for the same product is not going to make it.
 
My reply does sound a bit less that stellar but it wasn't meant as bashing. I was just reacting to one comment about future proofing and flexibility and promises... and felt that Devialet oversell in the marketing at first but didn't quite delivered... That's all.

As I said, every time I heard the Expert line, I always thought It sounded great (to the point of thinking why pay more?) and that shiny pizza box look is gorgeous! The universal amazing reviews we're right for once! Maybe the hype was too high at first...?

That said, I feel that a lot of first wave Devialet customers might feel that the Phantom line speakers somewhat devaluate the brand (and feel that ressources we're taken away from the Expert line)... even though, like someone said earlier, audio, like cars, loose their value the minute you open the box... pizza or otherwise! :D

I am very happy that you have only praise for Devialet and that your experience was pristine as It should always be at those prices. At any prices actually! Alas, browsing the DevialetChat forum, It wasn't the case for quite some time and for too many members... and that is a bit the spirit of this topic. Promises versus reality.

Will MSB lowering their prices devaluate the brand?
 
Adyc said:
To me, the question is whether MSB is going to charge less for the same product. If this is true, I think it is not fair to the previous buyers who support them. I have no problems if they have a new product charging less like Shunyata's Everest. But charging less for the same product is not going to make it.
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It’s also not fair to tell these previous buyers that they shouldn’t feel a thing if MSB ends up doing that (it’s mind boggling TBH, this is basic human nature and common sense). If there’s a Select II, Reference or even Premier owner that would be perfectly happy, I’d like to meet that gentleman or lady.
 
When products get older, manufacturers reduce prices to keep up with the market. As simple as that.

In the last year before release of a new car model, you’ll get full options for the price of the base model (at launch).

Unfortunately, sales volume will drive the renewal cycle. And MSB put themselves in a tough spot with an optimistic pricing strategy.


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Kuoppis said:
When products get older, manufacturers reduce prices to keep up with the market. As simple as that.

In the last year before release of a new car model, you’ll get full options for the price of the base model (at launch).

Unfortunately, sales volume will drive the renewal cycle. And MSB put themselves in a tough spot with an optimistic pricing strategy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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We are not talking about car industry here. More fair comparison is the other audio manufacturers. For example, MBL haven’t refreshed their Reference Line for a long time. But the prices keep increasing. I would be over the moon if MBL decreases the prices of 101X. Unfortunately, it is the opposite.
 
I believe that MSB will have only 1 option for every model of there various models. Select2, Reference, Premier and Discrete. As they are now building only the most popular version of each model and it will only be sold as that version only with no changes. With that they have optimised there production run and the only options will be there choice of Input Modules. Very courageous and each of the models bundle pricing has come down a decent amount and you now only have to choose between the 4 models and each model is only available as the best in its class with all previous upgrades are now a part of each model. Vey intelligent and with a better retail price by a decent chunk MSB has become extremely attractive at every price point.
 
seriouslyhifi said:
I believe that MSB will have only 1 option for every model of there various models. Select2, Reference, Premier and Discrete. As they are now building only the most popular version of each model and it will only be sold as that version only with no changes. With that they have optimised there production run and the only options will be there choice of Input Modules. Very courageous and each of the models bundle pricing has come down a decent amount and you now only have to choose between the 4 models and each model is only available as the best in its class with all previous upgrades are now a part of each model. Vey intelligent and with a better retail price by a decent chunk MSB has become extremely attractive at every price point.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable. Interesting to see whether that will be the case.


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kzhtoo said:
It’s also not fair to tell these previous buyers that they shouldn’t feel a thing if MSB ends up doing that (it’s mind boggling TBH, this is basic human nature and common sense). If there’s a Select II, Reference or even Premier owner that would be perfectly happy, I’d like to meet that gentleman or lady.
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i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.
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Hi Mike,

These are fair points. With the company’s new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
Hi Mike,

These are fair points. With the company’s new factory and tooling machinery, they have a larger monthly nut to cover. Their long-term financial health is an important issue.

Ken
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The same is true for all high end companies. I'm glad to see that ARC has broken free of being part of an audio conglomerate and is once again in charge of their own destiny. Too many audio companies get folded into large conglomerates and then get bought and sold like underwear at a yard sale. When companies tell you that your new electronic whizz bang unit is "future proof," I always take that with a grain of salt. Companies come and companies go for a variety of reasons which makes long term warranties and marketing phrases of being "future proof" promises at best.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
i have a different agenda. i have a full meal deal Select II so every option for a 2 channel variant. and the 10 year warranty and upgrade proposition was important to me.

so my priority is the health of MSB as a company. my 10 year plan has little value if MSB is not around to support it. it's naive to think that a maker of high end digital products is impervious to the challenges of this small market. so they need to be agile and make adjustments to maintain their market inertia, and i will have faith that in doing that and staying relevant and healthy that they are protecting my investment in the big picture. i have zero doubt that the perspective of the current MSB owners is a significant factor in their decisions. it's the foundation of everything they have done over the years.

i don't know the details of this change myself, so am anxious to see the facts too, like others.

let's see what happens, then ponder how that looks, keeping the long view in mind, before we get our panties in a bunch.

just my 2 cents, YMMV.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, Mike. No one here wants to see MSB goes under. They will have to do what’s right for the company and what the direction they want to take. They just won’t be able to make everyone happy with this problem.

I understand the promise of future proofing is what made many people get onboard and they were able to sell many Reference and Select II level products. But it sounds to me like the buyers at that level hit a plateau and the prospective solution is somewhat contradictory with their future-proofing business model. If it were like ARC, all they need to do is packaging some incremental improvements in a modified chassis and give it a different name or mark II label. Come to think of it though, that was what MSB did before their latest iteration of the DACs, so there must have been something about it that they didn’t like.

In any case, I have no beef in this whatsoever. I have a discrete (never wanted to buy a DAC above $10k price point) and reportedly no change is being considered for discrete level offering. Even if they did, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over Discrete getting down to $7-8k base price. I already got enough enjoyment out of my discrete. Again, my point in my previous post is for people to merely respect the view and feeling of Ref. and Select II owners. It’s $100,000 range investment after all (investment as in future proofing).
 
Kuoppis said:
When products get older, manufacturers reduce prices to keep up with the market. As simple as that.

In the last year before release of a new car model, you’ll get full options for the price of the base model (at launch).

Unfortunately, sales volume will drive the renewal cycle. And MSB put themselves in a tough spot with an optimistic pricing strategy.
Click to expand...

what on earth are you talking about? there has never been audio equipment that is analogous to end of cycle cars. this equipment isn't even end of cycle.
 
I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch [emoji3].

Here you have an example of exactly that.


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Kuoppis said:
I must say, that sounds a tiny bit like a MSB owner ouch [emoji3].

Here you have an example of exactly that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hi Kuoppis,

Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
Hi Kuoppis,

Is your goal to tweak the MSB owners?

Ken
Click to expand...

Yes Ken, but only a bit [emoji3].

Unfortunately, I’m speaking out of experience. A couple years back I was furious about another company’s portfolio approach. I also think MSB gear is good, but heavily overpriced. Based on Cournot’s law, it’s unsustainable. The market will always find the balance between price and value (demand).

But I think it was already stated in this thread: High end audio is not an investment, there’s no future proof path, and you’re always going to bleed money. The more high end you go, the more brutal the depreciation is going to be. That’s hard to stomach for people probably otherwise smart with their money. But it’s the price of admission to this crazy hobby, no-one is spared.


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