MAGICO M3 - Review

[Kippyy]

I really appreciate the support and ideas as I try to make the M3's work in my space. I forgot to mention the room has a lot of glass windows, which I suspect is not helping to get bass response. I'll consider each of these ideas, and continue to work with my dealer who is very supportive and wants me to be satisfied with the sound and acknowledges we are not there yet. This is a great community!
Barry

 

[Alpinist]

Bad call. [emoji41]

Try different amps. Engage your dealer. Add subs. Lots of options.


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I totally agree with Mike. You've invested a lot of money in your M3's and they are world class speakers, so you should exhaust all other avenues first before you make a speaker change. Repositioning, different cables, different amps and subwoofers should all be auditioned first. If none of this works for you, consider trading in the M3's for the S7's. They have as impressive bass as I've ever heard from a loudspeaker.

Best,
Ken

 

[socfan12]

I totally agree with Mike. You've invested a lot of money in your M3's and they are world class speakers, so you should exhaust all other avenues first before you make a speaker change. Repositioning, different cables, different amps and subwoofers should all be auditioned first. If none of this works for you, consider trading in the M3's for the S7's. They have as impressive bass as I've ever heard from a loudspeaker.

Best,
Ken

Yes they do!

 

[kzhtoo]

Hi Kippyy,
What sort of conditioner do you have? I see it hasn't been discussed.

 

[Kippyy]

I have Isotek Aquarius and Titan power conditioners.
My choice of amps is limited by having to be inside a cabinet in a warm room.
So, Class A/hot amps(Vitus,Gryphon) would not work, and Boulder is too deep
I might try hearing the Soulution 711 stereo amp.
I'm a bit gun shy at this point, as I don't want to sink a lot more $ in an amp to try to bring out the best in the M3, when the speaker just may not be suitable to the room given the amount of open space above to the 2nd floor.
I didn't experience a lack of oomph from my Alexias with the 911, but I'm sure this has to do with ported vs sealed box design.

 

[Joe P]

Kippyy, based on your size and temperature issues, you might want to try the Devialet Expert 1000.

BTW, if the Alexias worked well in your room, just image what the Alexx would do......

 

[Melbguy1]

Bad call. [emoji41]

Try different amps. Engage your dealer. Add subs. Lots of options.


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I'm with Mike on this. The M3's are great speakers. In the first instance I'd reach out to your Dealer who should be able to go through a step by step process of looking at speaker positioning, different amp options and subwoofers.

If your Dealer carries Vitus, I would suggest trying a Vitus SS-103 stereo amp + SL-103 pre. The Vitus amps will give you richer, more organic sound, and much better bass compared to your current amps. Fyi the latest Vitus amps don't run very hot in Class A thanks to 'Intelligent Class A bias' technology. That said, if you're looking for more cabinet-friendly amps, the Vitus SM-011 mono's & SL-103 could be the solution and will run cooler than the SS-103. The Soulution 711 would also be an excellent choice, but quite a bit more expensive than Vitus.

Adam (Elberoth) was right though that 3 x 7" bass drivers ultimately may be too small to pressurize your medium-large size room. That's pure physics. The answer could be a combination of Vitus or Vac amps & a pair of Q Sub 15's. That was the combo Alon was running during the recent Audioshark day at Magico's factory (albeit with Soulution amps from memory).

 

[kzhtoo]

I have Isotek Aquarius and Titan power conditioners.
My choice of amps is limited by having to be inside a cabinet in a warm room.
So, Class A/hot amps(Vitus,Gryphon) would not work, and Boulder is too deep
I might try hearing the Soulution 711 stereo amp.
I'm a bit gun shy at this point, as I don't want to sink a lot more $ in an amp to try to bring out the best in the M3, when the speaker just may not be suitable to the room given the amount of open space above to the 2nd floor.
I didn't experience a lack of oomph from my Alexias with the 911, but I'm sure this has to do with ported vs sealed box design.

Then you should be good in terms of power conditioning.

I also agree with the comments that 3 x 7" woofers may not be enough to fill your room and its opening (it's a shame really because M3s are out of this world good).

If adding subs is not an option (being living room and all), S5 mk2 may suit your need. I understand S7s are also suggested but it may be a bit imposing for a room size that cannot add subs.

Having said all these, don't give up easily on M3s, they really are as good as advertised.

 

[a.wayne]

I have Isotek Aquarius and Titan power conditioners.
My choice of amps is limited by having to be inside a cabinet in a warm room.
So, Class A/hot amps(Vitus,Gryphon) would not work, and Boulder is too deep
I might try hearing the Soulution 711 stereo amp.
I'm a bit gun shy at this point, as I don't want to sink a lot more $ in an amp to try to bring out the best in the M3, when the speaker just may not be suitable to the room given the amount of open space above to the 2nd floor.
I didn't experience a lack of oomph from my Alexias with the 911, but I'm sure this has to do with ported vs sealed box design.

I would suggest Plugging the amplifier straight to the wall and see the results and also remember vented gives you 6db more gain in the bass over sealed , 3 woofers over one should get you fairly close so I'm suspecting a drive issue, best to try the amplifier straight to the wall....

Regards

 

[metaphacts]

Kippyy - who is your dealer? Has he been able to assess the situation?


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:tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup:

 

[Melbguy1]

I would suggest Plugging the amplifier straight to the wall and see the results and also remember vented gives you 6db more gain in the bass over sealed , 3 woofers over one should get you fairly close so I'm suspecting a drive issue, best to try the amplifier straight to the wall....

Regards

The Isotec Titan conditioners are non-current limiting, so I don't think that is the problem. But no harm in a-b testing that option.

 

[Jack]

Mike

Based on his gear lineup I would guess it was Elite in S.F.

 

[Melbguy1]

If adding subs is not an option (being living room and all), S5 mk2 may suit your need. I understand S7s are also suggested but it may be a bit imposing for a room size that cannot add subs.

That's not a bad suggestion. I have a 24 x 16 listening room which is also my living/dining room that has an atrium leading up to the mezzanine level (similar to Barry). My speakers are placed along the long wall, so they have plenty of lateral room to breath, however I have limited options to bring the speakers out in the room. Hence a sealed box design works best in my situation. I've found the S5 Mk2's combination of voicing and bass depth/grip perfect for my needs, as my speakers also do double duty as 2-channel HT speakers (sans subs).

You're only as strong as your weakest link. My philosophy is to have a balanced system with good synergy and no weak links. Hence down-shifting to S5 Mk2's may not be such a strange option. The S5 Mk2 has the exact same midrange drivers as the M3 and shares some important design elements. And with the saved funds, you could trade up to a pair of cabinet-friendly Vitus SM-011 mono's & SL-103 pre & place them on Stillpoints Ultra 6's + Ultra bases. Then you could look at some nice cables like Jorma Prime or Siltech Royal Signature or Crown series + Acoustic Revive RCI-3H cable risers to round out your system.

 

[BlueFox]

Since kippyy is in the East Bay and I am in the South Bay then maybe we should swap speakers. An experiment type thing. Then again, having to pack/unpack either of those two speakers is not something I would like to do again.

 

[Kuoppis]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here [emoji3].


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[a.wayne]

Kuoppis , dats your best post, Heeevar ....... :thumbsup:

 

[a.wayne]

The Isotec Titan conditioners are non-current limiting, so I don't think that is the problem. But no harm in a-b testing that option.

On a high sensitivity 8 ohm speaker i would say most wont current limit, unfortunately when you get into a lowZ , low speaker sensitivity situation most do current limit , well thats been my experience ....


Regards

 

[Mike]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here [emoji3].


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Courses for horses. You need to always keep the room, setup flexibility, etc. in play. The M3's work in my 18.5 x 25 room without subs, so I like them, without subs, in 12 x 16 to 18 x 25 with 15 x 20 (or there about) being ideal.

It's also important to note that coming from a speaker with pronounced (trying to be PC here) bass, going to a speaker with very linear, balanced bass can sound thin.

I remember when I went from the Alexia's to the Salon 2's (for a short period), I must have called Harman 5 times to tell them the woofers were broken because there was no bass. I had gone from a very boomy sound in my room to a lean (or what I thought was lean) one.

I would first find the best seating position for bass measured by pink noise and a microphone/monitor and then get the speakers much further out into the room. Use a stand up bass test track and move the speakers further into the room until you hear a more cohesive bass (not thin).

In his size of room, gotta say, I think subs are likely necessary. It's too bad tubes are out for him.

I'll probably McIntosh is a thick sounding amp that doesn't get hot. A 452 or pair of 601's would fit the bill. No, they don't have the bass slam of the Euro amps, but they are musical and very full sounding.

On the higher end of things, definitely Vitus. SM-103's would fit the bill.

Just brain storming...

 

[Melbguy1]

On a high sensitivity 8 ohm speaker i would say most wont current limit, unfortunately when you get into a lowZ , low speaker sensitivity situation most do current limit , well thats been my experience ....


Regards

I was thinking of the latest Evo 3 Titan which is a very nice thing. I'm not sure how that compares to the original Titan model, so you may have a valid point.

 

[Elberoth]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here [emoji3].


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Sure, it is not a concert hall, but it is still a BIG room (the actual volume to fill is much larger than the size sugest). The M3s are not meant for big rooms. You have the M-Pros (and the upcoming M5s or whatever the name will be) for that. M3s are meant to be an ultimate speakers for small and medium sized rooms. Put them in a room too big and you will not have the ultimate bass slam. That is just pure physics and same will happen with any speaker equipped with 3 7" bass drivers. No magic here.

And no, Magico does not always demo M3s with subs. They have demoed them in Munich last year without any.

PS. I do not think the amps are to blame. Burmester 911s are very capable in the bass department. Vitus may sound better to many thanks to their warmer, more relaxed and fluid presentation, but I highly doubt they will improve upon 911s in the bass.