Magico M3 Announced!

[Rhapsody]

We have been driving the S3, S5II and S7 for several months now along with two customers who have the Q7II and the MPros.

The S3, S5II, S7, MPro and Q7II all are wonderful sounding speakers. I would caution to think that just because one of the mentioned speakers has a specific tweeter, that first having a great sounding room and then a great sounding system behind a specific speaker will have a LOT more to do with the musicality and overall system performance than specific tweeter. All of the latest gen Magico tweeters have special sounding tweeters, but I would suggest that with the right front end and amplification you could make more magic with even a S5II vs. any of the models above it if they did not also have the best room and synergistic set of electronics.

That's before you get to the point that it's all subjective anyway.....

We had the discussion earlier about the Vitus amps on the Magicos. I would add to that conversation that the SM011's running in Class A on the S5II's in a 700 sq.ft room approach listing to live music.....a lot closer that I would have imagined. And I play live music daily.

 

[Al M.]

Look stunning, come with all the candy and are available to anyone, mean move [emoji83].But in my book a woofer is a membrane 8" upwards, anything below does not provide a full enough sound. They measure 24 Hz on the bottom end, but that can be reached in many ways. The too small woofers were also the problem root causes with the Q3s. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why would you want to run a speaker without a subwoofer anyway? Also the S7 needs a sub, at least in a large room -- I've heard it myself.

 

[Kuoppis]

Why would you want to run a speaker without a subwoofer anyway? Also the S7 needs a sub, at least in a large room -- I've heard it myself.

This is a question perspective and taste.

Some may see it that way and that is ok, personally I do not like subs and would rather not run hi-end speakers with subs. IMHO the sound becomes incoherent that way (subjective, personal view).

In addition, if I'd buy a pair of speakers for a couple hundred grand or even 70K for that matter, which need a sub to sound nice, I'd bite myself in the butt.

PS: Have heard the big guys as well and didn't feel they need a sub, just proper electronics. In many cases acoustic room treatment does the trick. Again, personal taste.

 

[Alpinist]

Why would you want to run a speaker without a subwoofer anyway? Also the S7 needs a sub, at least in a large room -- I've heard it myself.

Hi Al,

I auditioned the Magico S7 with Spectral Gear in a large properly treated room and I didn't find its bass to be lacking at any frequency. In fact, I found it to be quite robust and visceral. IMHO it doesn't need a subwoofer at all.

Ken

 

[Mike]

Hi Al,

I auditioned the Magico S7 with Spectral Gear in a large properly treated room and I didn't find its bass to be lacking at any frequency. In fact, I found it to be quite robust and visceral. IMHO it doesn't need a subwoofer at all.

Ken

Although some argue a subwoofer isn't for bass, it's for enhancing the midrange, I totally agree with you. Ditto for the S5 mk2 from what I heard.

 

[Rhapsody]

This is a question perspective and taste.

Some may see it that way and that is ok, personally I do not like subs and would rather not run hi-end speakers with subs. IMHO the sound becomes incoherent that way (subjective, personal view).

In addition, if I'd buy a pair of speakers for a couple hundred grand or even 70K for that matter, which need a sub to sound nice, I'd bite myself in the butt.

PS: Have heard the big guys as well and didn't feel they need a sub, just proper electronics. In many cases acoustic room treatment does the trick. Again, personal taste.

+1.....personal taste, but definitely not "required" on the S5II and the S7 to deliver world class, textured, riveting, clear, tonally correct and overall linearity of the bass with respect to the rest of the spectrum.

Besides personal taste there are also "living conditions" ie. NYC, where even the "wealthy" live in close proximity to neighbors. Subs, in most cases are just not in the cards as the lower frequency activity can get you evicted from your home, so you might have to give up what subs can provide, but it doesn't take away the world class attributes of the bass mentioned, from the S5II's on up....and in a lot of cases even the S3's in the right room with a good matching set of electronics.

Like they say "We shall see"......just put an order in for M3's.

 

[Al M.]

+1.....personal taste, but definitely not "required" on the S5II and the S7 to deliver world class, textured, riveting, clear, tonally correct and overall linearity of the bass with respect to the rest of the spectrum.Besides personal taste there are also "living conditions" ie. NYC, where even the "wealthy" live in close proximity to neighbors. Subs, in most cases are just not in the cards as the lower frequency activity can get you evicted from your home, so you might have to give up what subs can provide, but it doesn't take away the world class attributes of the bass mentioned, from the S5II's on up....and in a lot of cases even the S3's in the right room with a good matching set of electronics.Like they say "We shall see"......just put an order in for M3's.

So you do admit that subs add something extra to the bass. Precisely my point.

 

[Al M.]

Hi Al,I auditioned the Magico S7 with Spectral Gear in a large properly treated room and I didn't find its bass to be lacking at any frequency. In fact, I found it to be quite robust and visceral. IMHO it doesn't need a subwoofer at all.

Hi Ken, I heard the S7 in Goodwin's large room with and without sub (S Sub), the Magico representative who did the expert set-up himself demonstrated that. You did need the sub. He said, yes you can get more bass from the S7 standalone in this large room, but then you have to move it closer to the sidewalls which degrades the sound.

 

[Rhapsody]

So you do admit that subs add something extra to the bass. Precisely my point.

Sure subs done properly, integrated as one of the variables in the overall system can be wonderful, but again, you could put that system together and some would love it, but play the same system with the subs turned off and another person would prefer that sound, especially with bass like the S5II's and S7's have without subs.

Personally I like subs for what Mike said, not necessarily the bass, but the overall effect of the soundstage, the midrange and even the high end as everything can seem more relaxed and stable. Although integrating even really great subs into a room/system can be a challenge regarding placement/space etc. and sometimes there are trade-offs.

Again, from my view it's all personal preference.

 

[Al M.]

Some may see it that way and that is ok, personally I do not like subs and would rather not run hi-end speakers with subs. IMHO the sound becomes incoherent that way (subjective, personal view). In addition, if I'd buy a pair of speakers for a couple hundred grand or even 70K for that matter, which need a sub to sound nice, I'd bite myself in the butt.

Several very large, high-priced speakers for large rooms come with their own subwoofer towers. For a reason.

 

[Rhapsody]

So you do admit that subs add something extra to the bass. Precisely my point.

Al, I would invite you if ever in NYC to hear even the S5ii's with the Vitus electronics in a large space and see if you then think that they "need subs".

 

[Rhapsody]

Several very large, high-priced speakers for large rooms come with their own subwoofer towers. For a reason.

Al, precisely regarding the "large room". As we all know bass is more room dependent than any other variable and in some, especially large rooms, would benefit greatly from properly matched and calibrated subs. Although in small and medium size rooms you have to be pretty careful with subs to have the same overall positive effect that you might get in a large room.

My point is that you just can't say subs "are required" to have a great system and even deliver world class bass. There is a LOT of personal preference and room dependencies that must be taken into account.

 

[Kuoppis]

Like they say "We shall see"......just put an order in for M3's.

Love it! There are people who talk and people who do.

Congrats, I am sure they will be absolutely mesmerizing! Looking forward to your findings when you get them.

 

[Kuoppis]

Several very large, high-priced speakers for large rooms come with their own subwoofer towers. For a reason.

That's perfectly fine and they might be very good, even great. But they might also not be to my liking.

I am embarrassed to admit, but in my dedicated music room my taste rules above all the wisdom of the world. Because it's me paying.

 

[Rhapsody]

Love it! There are people who talk and people who do.

Congrats, I am sure they will be absolutely mesmerizing! Looking forward to your findings when you get them.

I just looked at the pic's and I was gone. Maybe see you in a few days the MOC!

 

[FlexibleAudio]

We have been driving the S3, S5II and S7 for several months now along with two customers who have the Q7II and the MPros.

The S3, S5II, S7, MPro and Q7II all are wonderful sounding speakers. I would caution to think that just because one of the mentioned speakers has a specific tweeter, that first having a great sounding room and then a great sounding system behind a specific speaker will have a LOT more to do with the musicality and overall system performance than specific tweeter. All of the latest gen Magico tweeters have special sounding tweeters, but I would suggest that with the right front end and amplification you could make more magic with even a S5II vs. any of the models above it if they did not also have the best room and synergistic set of electronics.

That's before you get to the point that it's all subjective anyway.....

We had the discussion earlier about the Vitus amps on the Magicos. I would add to that conversation that the SM011's running in Class A on the S5II's in a 700 sq.ft room approach listing to live music.....a lot closer that I would have imagined. And I play live music daily.

Thanks for your insights. I guess a better question then would be how do the current generation tweeters sound to you relative to the Q5's? I was not enamored with them and also struggled a bit with the S5 II's at Axpona (although I fear the tapes I heard were possibly responsible based on a couple other comments). Can you provide some contrast with the Q's? Thanks much.

 

[JGlacken]

Mike your PMs are full!

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Several very large, high-priced speakers for large rooms come with their own subwoofer towers. For a reason.

Yes, even for a well designed custom room it is unlikely the location that optimizes the sound stage is likely to also optimize the room nodes. In fact, many consider it impossible. Integration of subs done properly (room nodes and time domain; not just phase) optimizes both and gives you visceral bass that very few floor standers will touch.

I find it hard to believe many audiophile would reject this solution based on taste when done properly, but you can never say never on subjective matters. All that said, Magico probably makes the worlds greatest subs so let's get this party started.

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks for your insights. I guess a better question then would be how do the current generation tweeters sound to you relative to the Q5's? I was not enamored with them and also struggled a bit with the S5 II's at Axpona (although I fear the tapes I heard were possibly responsible based on a couple other comments). Can you provide some contrast with the Q's? Thanks much.

Hi Paul,

That's a tough one, although I have had Q3's and Q5's here in the same room as the S5II's and S7's. I always felt both the Q3's and Q5's were an overall high level sound producer than the original S5. But then with the new S5II's and 7's I felt like they didn't give up anything to the Q3's and had a much fuller bodied sound, which I felt helped, along with the new tweeters, to "calm things down".

My experience has been with the Q3's/Q5's was that amplification, room (most important) and entire system matching was so crucial to get the top end to my liking. In my room, which actually is a bit "over dampened" I never feel any excess high end energy with the S5II's or the S7's, not matter what electronics I drive them with. I actually don't even notice that the S5II's/S7's have tweeters, I just hear music and can tell nothing to indicate whether notes are coming from the midrange or the tweeter, it's just open, extended on the top music.

So hard hearing systems in different rooms and with different sources and systems to draw any accurate conclusions. I only understand what something sounds like once I get something in my room and live with it for a while. I also realize if I move that same exact set up to a different room, I might have a completely different perspective on everything. Sorry....very nebulous answer.

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Hi Paul,

That's a tough one, although I have had Q3's and Q5's here in the same room as the S5II's and S7's. I always felt both the Q3's and Q5's were an overall high level sound producer than the original S5. But then with the new S5II's and 7's I felt like they didn't give up anything to the Q3's and had a much fuller bodied sound, which I felt helped, along with the new tweeters, to "calm things down".

My experience has been with the Q3's/Q5's was that amplification, room (most important) and entire system matching was so crucial to get the top end to my liking. In my room, which actually is a bit "over dampened" I never feel any excess high end energy with the S5II's or the S7's, not matter what electronics I drive them with. I actually don't even notice that the S5II's/S7's have tweeters, I just hear music and can tell nothing to indicate whether notes are coming from the midrange or the tweeter, it's just open, extended on the top music.

So hard hearing systems in different rooms and with different sources and systems to draw any accurate conclusions. I only understand what something sounds like once I get something in my room and live with it for a while. I also realize if I move that same exact set up to a different room, I might have a completely different perspective on everything. Sorry....very nebulous answer.

Very good stuff. The resolution of the Q's with a "calmed down tweeter;" like my Avatar Gus, I bet that dog can really hunt! Thanks much.