In terms of jitter; is femtoseconds superior and less jitter than a picosecond?

I was not looking to point in that you don’t know what is good
my point was to show divergence and it’s effects on us.
In another thread on these forums some are convinced clipping does not occur in amps nor having to play music very loud for it to happen.
Again if we’re able to be there I could say that’s is clipping.
Its simaler to the Msb dacs. I think he Msb sel2 is a great dac at nearly 100k as opposed to a pacific at 30k. I feel very confident In a head to head A/B with a great sever setup like what I have not an aurender or linux OS. The lampi will shine and show the Msb has a house sound and reveal its being processed or mech sound.
Pcm on the sel is very good and here red book filter CUST made after its release elevated its sound. The pacific has pcm on there level at 1/3 the cost and pacific dsd is real dsd sound.
I really wish you would have asked for a demo of the pacific and I feel confident more money would stayed in your pocket as there may be no clear winner for all price wise there absolutely is.
Going back to the topic at hand. Jitter is less important on an Msb dac
but using a great server is still a must. May I ask what you plan to use as a server to the Msb ??
And this is not meant to prompt an argument just asking.
Also when you have both power bases plesee post of what you hear in adding the second please. For me it was un eventful. Again not pointing truly just asking.
What inputs do you plan to use I still prefur usb while it’s now a heretic move to not have some kind of network interface. I have tried many some bad some were on par with my usb.
Having said this a network naa is cool to have.
Also what playback software scheme example roon to hq to dac .
 
mdp632 said:
A cheap laptop connected via USB into a high end dac.. Such as an MSB, DCS etc... Compared to a Aurrender etc...
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Jitter is a measured metric. Still see no example of "spewing".

Btw, another measured metric is THD. So you same folks who fret about jitter also seek the absolute lowest THD then eh. Wouldn't want anything spewing THD would we?
What number is good enough, 0.0000001% ?

Another btw, there is an entire field of science dedicated to correlating measured metrics to perception, so that one can be informed just how much jitter...or THD is perceptible.
 
To muddy this further I read a few articles on jitter at some levels being good to some ears.
It’s very complex in the end but I do think a good source is needed not a laptop lol ��
 
To muddy this further I read a few articles on jitter at some levels being good to some ears.
It’s very complex in the end but I do think a good source is needed not a laptop lol 😂
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Jitter is a measured metric. Still see no example of "spewing".

Btw, another measured metric is THD. So you same folks who fret about jitter also seek the absolute lowest THD then eh. Wouldn't want anything spewing THD would we?
What number is good enough, 0.0000001% ?

Another btw, there is an entire field of science dedicated to correlating measured metrics to perception, so that one can be informed just how much jitter...or THD is perceptible.
Click to expand...

I'm not an engineer ; nor did I claim to be. I'm just trying to figure this out from a consumer point of view.

Oh finally you seem like one these engineers that has a condescending attitude toward others. If you want my advice It would be stay off the public forums because your tone is going to damage your brand.

Frankly, I'd hire someone with people skills and you can stay in the garage and keep building those speakers.
 
Aj at some point jitter is bad this is obvious and no needed intstramentaion is needed to know its bad
to think a filter fixes this is flawed. Also there are many types of jitter at play no filter fixes this unless it’s removing music details with it
my lampi May have some type pleasing distortion it’s nit jitter that is why.
 
Alrainbow said:
Aj at some point jitter is bad this is obvious and no needed intstramentaion is needed to know its bad
to think a filter fixes this is flawed.
Click to expand...
I didn't say the filter fixes all. I said the only thing you can hear, is the analog output. If the jitter is audible, then you are hearing it in the analog output.
There is a lot of evidence that for jitter to be audible, it must be at levels magnitudes above even the least expensive forms of electronic equipment. http://www.audiophilleo.com/zh_hk/docs/Dunn-AP-tn23.pdf
There is zero evidence to the contrary. Anything made in the last 30 years producing >20ns jitter belongs in the repair shop or trash.
There are many reasons why you prefer your Lampi (which I've heard) over other DACs. Jitter isn't one of them.
 
This I do think a nice comparison.
The RME ADI-Pro (AD/DA) and the ADI2 DAC use the same DAC (chip)
The ADI2 has a femto clock, the Pro not.
Indeed there is a measurable improvement in the jitter department but this starts somewhere around -120 dBFS
I think you will have a very hard time to make this tiny difference at such a low level audible.
But technically a femto clock does a better job.
A ADI-2 retails at E 999,-
Obvious femto clocking won’t break the bank.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-rme-adi-2-pro-comparison-to-adi-2-dac.2682/
 
Alrainbow said:
I feel very confident In a head to head A/B with a great sever setup like what I have not an aurender or linux OS. The lampi will shine and show the Msb has a house sound and reveal its being processed or mech sound.
Click to expand...

Okay, I sense an agenda here. I’m not biting this time.

Ken
 
AJ Soundfield said:
To some.
Click to expand...
Aj said so perfect 👌 someone and many of them. Distortion of the right amount at the right freq is the of a sterile or dry amp as to a wet musical one. Why you say you cannot hear digital is a truth that is not putting things in perspective for audio.
next you make speakers right ? You create he most distortion in Audio reproduction how can you even say that lol.
 
Alpinist said:
Okay, I sense an agenda here. I’m not biting this time.

Ken
Click to expand...
No agenda Ken honestly just discussion of sound types and what each of us like is all.
I do feel the sel 2 with bells and whistles is a great dac at 4 times the price of the pacific I just cannot justify its cost is all. Enjoy it I for one have owned pride of ownership items and never felt good after he purchase or lease
for me give me the under dog in price and get me there is where I feel good
 
mdp632 said:
Oh finally you seem like one these engineers that has a condescending attitude toward others. If you want my advice It would be stay off the public forums because your tone is going to damage your brand.
Click to expand...

Best advice in this thread.
 
Alrainbow said:
Aj said so perfect  someone and many of them. Distortion of the right amount at the right freq is the of a sterile or dry amp as to a wet musical one. Why you say you cannot hear digital is a truth that is not putting things in perspective for audio.
Click to expand...
It's sometimes difficult to interpret what you are actually saying, but what I'm saying is that yours or someone else preference for certain distortions/sounds/etc are just that, a preference. That's it. Someone else, like Alpinist, might prefer the MSB, as might others. It's incredibly silly to argue about personal preference. It is what it is. It doesn't make one component "better" than another in absolute terms because you prefer it. It just means you prefer it!

Alrainbow said:
next you make speakers right ?
Click to expand...
Yes, another perfect example of preference, hence not everyone having the same "better/best/etc" DAC...and speakers.
All personal preferences. We all prefer different things. End of story.:)

cheers,

AJ
 
I’m the only one who’s had the Pacific, Select II and DCS Vivaldi 2 system in the same system.

The Pacific is a terrific DAC at $30k ish.

The DCS is not my cup of tea.

The MSB is founded on the fundamentals of a world class source:

1) modular based
2) R2R instead of chip based - the sonics here speak for themselves
3) special attention paid to the importance of the clock.
4) power supply, power supply, power supply
5) the S2 has a proper grounding scheme which lowers the noise floor even further

YMMV


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The production model is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the prototype we heard. I hear that the squeezing of the last bit of perfomance was why the launch had a delay. Lukasz sought absolute perfection in execution. I am one of the few that heard them both. I even heard the Pac with the "holy trinity" of tubes...all TAKATSUKI (DHT and recti). Delicious!

I only heard the Select 1. I am told by ears I TRUST the Sel 2 is waaaaaay better and is the real deal. RBCD off the chain. The Sel 1 was was not fit for Primetime in my view.
 
Mike said:
I’m the only one who’s had the Pacific, Select II and DCS Vivaldi 2 system in the same system.

The Pacific is a terrific DAC at $30k ish.

The DCS is not my cup of tea.

The MSB is founded on the fundamentals of a world class source:

1) modular based
2) R2R instead of chip based - the sonics here speak for themselves
3) special attention paid to the importance of the clock.
4) power supply, power supply, power supply
5) the S2 has a proper grounding scheme which lowers the noise floor even further

YMMV


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

AJ Soundfield said:
It's sometimes difficult to interpret what you are actually saying, but what I'm saying is that yours or someone else preference for certain distortions/sounds/etc are just that, a preference. That's it. Someone else, like Alpinist, might prefer the MSB, as might others. It's incredibly silly to argue about personal preference. It is what it is. It doesn't make one component "better" than another in absolute terms because you prefer it. It just means you prefer it!


Yes, another perfect example of preference, hence not everyone having the same "better/best/etc" DAC...and speakers.
All personal preferences. We all prefer different things. End of story.:)

cheers,

AJ
Click to expand...
my reply is meant for AJ
ok smart guy what part did you not understand ?
Please ExpLain I stuck up for as you do seem to be condisending at times as you post in absolutes.
And your jitter comment is just wrong period how can you think a fliter is to fix what’s bad to begin with. But hey I am the one misunderstood. I was nice to you coz a bud said your ok I beg to differ on this.
Be nice and not post In a pointed manner , I don’t sell anything and you do.
And while we all have preference some is not. Bad is bad by most if they have heard good.
My comment on distortion is valid but you glazed over it. jitter does not fit your cause.
Jitter is real and we here it’s end results on analog. Want to know why reclocking is needed and why Msb does it. It’s simple it helps with a server or source that’s less than what is needed for hi end.
Geez I even gave you a pass as you tried to help mep another lost sole in Audio cluelessnes needs.
 
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