If.....

sharkmouth said:
Thanks for the insights people & Eric, great post. I sense the undertones that are being applied to stop this going nuke & appreciate the thoughtfulness, sure don't want this to turn into a shitfight of one against another.
For me it's about if I did go for a table & wanted to get a very good one that wasn't uber expensive, would the $10k point be a good point to start with the table. I am already onto the cleaner & tools, also the demo part can be done. Would the VPI Classic Signature be a good thing for what I am asking as I know jack about t/t's.
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Kev,

$10K's actually a very reasonable budget for a table.The Soulution has a great phono stage , you should take advantage of it. Any number of choices out there , the VPI Classic 3 is one though I'm generally not a fan of their tables. The new Rega RP-10 is excellent , an uber-overachiever at it's price point & no fuss or muss on setup with their Apheta cartridge. Well supported Down Under too.
 
Bob thanks for that & thanks to everyone for their input. I need to demo & study.... ;)
 
OK I'm going to play devil's advocate and one needs both digital and analog mediums because the mixes for many of today's releases are totally different. Take the Daft Punk album. Despite all the ballyhoo about it being an analog recording, the digital mix destroys the analog release.

That said, it's a difficult choice starting out today from scratch in analog. It will be a considerable investment initially in terms of gear and then LPs. You might find this a little strange coming from me, but I'd give strong consideration to going the DSD route. That is if there will be enough material. Two or three years ago, heard comparison of tape vs the 2X DSD copy and it was very good. Not the same as the tape but darn good. I know my colleague David Robinson who has far more experience with the two mediums has been doing a lot of tape transfers with 4X DSD, is very happy with the results. So with 4X DSD, it might make things more interesting. But how much 4X dsd material will there be? So in the end, my heart would be in going with analog.
 
Kev, like I said in your room thread, you and I are traveling on a similar paths. First tubes: I'm finally a buyer with Allnic. Vinyl vs. digital? Same fork in the road as you and I chose to invest in analog. Trying to figure out ways to pay for it all as others have said, it's quite an investment. Not just TT, but arm, cart, phono (which seems you have that covered already), and then accessories (RCM, etc). Luckily for me I have a local dealer who's really into vinyl and has some awesome analog rigs and will help with initial setup.

I will keep a digital front end, but I am definitely branching out to analog. Would be cool to see you do same. Good luck on your decision my friend. ;)
 
socfan12 said:
Kev, like I said in your room thread, you and I are traveling on a similar paths. First tubes: I'm finally a buyer with Allnic. Vinyl vs. digital? Same fork in the road as you and I chose to invest in analog. Trying to figure out ways to pay for it all as others have said, it's quite an investment. Not just TT, but arm, cart, phono (which seems you have that covered already), and then accessories (RCM, etc). Luckily for me I have a local dealer who's really into vinyl and has some awesome analog rigs and will help with initial setup.

I will keep a digital front end, but I am definitely branching out to analog. Would be cool to see you do same. Good luck on your decision my friend. ;)
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welcome to the dark side, and I mean that literally. your friends will go dark on you, family - forget them. all that matters is prioritizing your obsession of tracking down every rare vinyl gem in existence and if its got great SQ all the better. Then there are the OCD-type rituals on the care and feeding of vinyl particularly cleaning, the type, way and method not to mention the fluids. we can go on and on in detail about every single aspect of just caring for records that can have a PROFOUND (audiophiliac hyperbole) affect on the sound. you have no idea what you're both getting yourselves into and I haven't even scratched the surface.

On a serious note, when you do make the transition you must recalibrate your ears because the difference between great analog and what you're used to will require you to scrub and extricate all aural memories of what you think music 'should' sound like. The synthetic recreation of the analog waveform [ahem: excruciating noise] you've been accustomed to, will instead be replaced by your new reference, live music itself. those are the new aural memories you'll create on your path to analog nirvana.
 
puroagave said:
welcome to the dark side, and I mean that literally. your friends will go dark on you, family - forget them. all that matters is prioritizing your obsession of tracking down every rare vinyl gem in existence and if its got great SQ all the better. Then there are the OCD-type rituals on the care and feeding of vinyl particularly cleaning, the type, way and method not to mention the fluids. we can go on and on in detail about every single aspect of just caring for records that can have a PROFOUND (audiophiliac hyperbole) affect on the sound. you have no idea what you're both getting yourselves into and I haven't even scratched the surface.

On a serious note, when you do make the transition you must recalibrate your ears because the difference between great analog and what you're used to will require you to scrub and extricate all aural memories of what you think music 'should' sound like. The synthetic recreation of the analog waveform [ahem: excruciating noise] you've been accustomed to, will instead be replaced by your new reference, live music itself. those are the new aural memories you'll create on your path to analog nirvana.
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Great post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
puroagave said:
welcome to the dark side, and I mean that literally. your friends will go dark on you, family - forget them. all that matters is prioritizing your obsession of tracking down every rare vinyl gem in existence and if its got great SQ all the better. Then there are the OCD-type rituals on the care and feeding of vinyl particularly cleaning, the type, way and method not to mention the fluids. we can go on and on in detail about every single aspect of just caring for records that can have a PROFOUND (audiophiliac hyperbole) affect on the sound. you have no idea what you're both getting yourselves into and I haven't even scratched the surface.

On a serious note, when you do make the transition you must recalibrate your ears because the difference between great analog and what you're used to will require you to scrub and extricate all aural memories of what you think music 'should' sound like. The synthetic recreation of the analog waveform [ahem: excruciating noise] you've been accustomed to, will instead be replaced by your new reference, live music itself. those are the new aural memories you'll create on your path to analog nirvana.
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Rob, thanks, I'm really looking forward to it. I don't have a TT yet but I spend most of my time now doing as you say: searching for that rare vinyl gem for my collection. It's getting expensive!:P I still have some original LPs I purchased when I was young (Rumours, etc). Can't wait to hear how they sound vs. the new reissues.


Mike said:
Great post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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+1!
 
Kev and Allen,
As you decend into the vinyl vortex, one critical decision should be made to make your future enjoyment of vinyl so much better..... Figure out how to organize your collection BEFORE it is too big and it's too late ;)
Ps - i've just spent over an hour looking for a joni mitchell lp that i'm sure i have..... Somewhere in this mess!
 
tunes said:
Kev and Allen,
As you decend into the vinyl vortex, one critical decision should be made to make your future enjoyment of vinyl so much better..... Figure out how to organize your collection BEFORE it is too big and it's too late ;)
Ps - i've just spent over an hour looking for a joni mitchell lp that i'm sure i have..... Somewhere in this mess!
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Great point to make! Happens more often than I care.
 
socfan12 said:
Rob, thanks, I'm really looking forward to it. I don't have a TT yet but I spend most of my time now doing as you say: searching for that rare vinyl gem for my collection. It's getting expensive!:P I still have some original LPs I purchased when I was young (Rumours, etc). Can't wait to hear how they sound vs. the new reissues.
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look at it a different way, the best reissues are 30-50 bucks ea. or an average of around 40. divide that into ten grand and its only 250 records. if you aspire to 2000 recordings that's almost $90k. and its not just new vinyl but used, OOP collectible LPs that will easily set you back by the same amount.

today, if you were exclusively digital and were fluent in computer audio you'd never have to pay for it - your dollars will go m-u-c-h farther in audio if the music were free. that said, i know vinyl 'collectors' that almost NEVER pay more than 2,3 or 5 bucks a used record and if they can get it free they'll drive 500 miles for it (i have friend that does this). These guys abide by a unique code of ethics as if paying high prices for LPs is like paying for sex - never, not happening.

So the choice is yours but if i were a betting man, you're going to go for the good stuff so start saving your shekels now.
 
Bobolaclune said:
Kev,

$10K's actually a very reasonable budget for a table.The Soulution has a great phono stage , you should take advantage of it. Any number of choices out there , the VPI Classic 3 is one though I'm generally not a fan of their tables. The new Rega RP-10 is excellent , an uber-overachiever at it's price point & no fuss or muss on setup with their Apheta cartridge. Well supported Down Under too.
Click to expand...

Big +1 re your phono stage.


Maybe grab this on Audiogon:

=> CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION COMPACT TABLE w/ MAGNIFY TONEARM, DEALER DEMO, $6,500 WARRANTY, SAVE $3500!


Add this:

=> Lyra Delos NEW optional $1650 or NIB Clearaudio Talisman V2 $1350 or many other cartridge choices.


Your in the game with a great table, really great phono stage all for $7500 with a Warranty on the table (and I am pretty sure they will likely take less). The $2500 leftover will buy a few nice vinyls too.

 
Rob...How can there be such a thing as free music? If you are listening to a free-to-air broadcast such as terrestrial or IP radio, it is still loaded with commercial advertising and has been compressed. Once it is lossy, it is compromised to a lower listening pleasure level. A streaming service cannot normally be archived. So if you are archiving music, how are you doing it for free? Is it that you are doing some sort of DAC-ADP DSP on material & what sort of material is it if it already cost your nothing?

Or is it that peer-to-peer is your thing? I suppose you have some ready access when torring into the deep internet?

We are all audiophiles here in the pursuit of knowledge, so please share your best methods of obtaining and listening to digital music.
 
Steve said:
Rob...How can there be such a thing as free music? If you are listening to a free-to-air broadcast such as terrestrial or IP radio, it is still loaded with commercial advertising and has been compressed. Once it is lossy, it is compromised to a lower listening pleasure level. A streaming service cannot normally be archived. So if you are archiving music, how are you doing it for free? Is it that you are doing some sort of DAC-ADP DSP on material & what sort of material is it if it already cost your nothing?

Or is it that peer-to-peer is your thing? I suppose you have some ready access when torring into the deep internet...
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P2P is not my thing but there are legal bittorrent sites on the web with plenty of lossless, hi-res and DSD files for the taking. i read somewhere something like 90% of the content distributed in china and russia was acquired this way for free. its probably happening under your nose - do you have a teenager about? My FLAC files were ripped from CD which i paid for one disc at a time.
 
I was thinking maybe a VPI Prime due out in November with a spiffy Transfiguration cartridge, not that i know jack about this stuff though, that would leave me 2k for vinyl out of the 10. This means my first table will be at the 5-6k wet spot & if things get tickety boo, well...... don't those Kronos give one the wood in the britches department!!!
Be damned with the digital, that's all I've been doing for the last 4 years, gotta say though, some of it is really good!
 
It's been posted but maybe not emphasized enough that you have to decide where your sonic priorities lie and in what format the music you listen to is available. Despite the current enthusiasm for LP's on most audiophile sites they have type-specific sonic characteristics (including faults) and potentially limited musical repertoire (e.g., very little of the recorded live music available today is available in an analog format, very little classical or jazz from the last 20+ yrs, etc). And for me, despite having been involved in high-end audio for over 40 years, I prefer the sound of a well done pure digital hi-res recording to any LP, and even the sound of well done analog tape transferred to hi-res digital over any LP. CD is more iffy, although some like Winston Ma's are pretty darn good.
 
sharkmouth said:
I was thinking maybe a VPI Prime due out in November with a spiffy Transfiguration cartridge, not that i know jack about this stuff though, that would leave me 2k for vinyl out of the 10. This means my first table will be at the 5-6k wet spot & if things get tickety boo, well...... don't those Kronos give one the wood in the britches department!!!
Be damned with the digital, that's all I've been doing for the last 4 years, gotta say though, some of it is really good!
Click to expand...

Kev, you need to leave some money for a good ultrasonic record cleaning machine, after getting a Klaudio, I think it's an essential part of the equation !

A VPI Classic and a Lyra Delos would be the perfect place to start.
 
puroagave said:
welcome to the dark side, and I mean that literally. your friends will go dark on you, family - forget them. all that matters is prioritizing your obsession of tracking down every rare vinyl gem in existence and if its got great SQ all the better. Then there are the OCD-type rituals on the care and feeding of vinyl particularly cleaning, the type, way and method not to mention the fluids. we can go on and on in detail about every single aspect of just caring for records that can have a PROFOUND (audiophiliac hyperbole) affect on the sound. you have no idea what you're both getting yourselves into and I haven't even scratched the surface.

On a serious note, when you do make the transition you must recalibrate your ears because the difference between great analog and what you're used to will require you to scrub and extricate all aural memories of what you think music 'should' sound like. The synthetic recreation of the analog waveform [ahem: excruciating noise] you've been accustomed to, will instead be replaced by your new reference, live music itself. those are the new aural memories you'll create on your path to analog nirvana.
Click to expand...

Oh so true!
 
tunes said:
Kev and Allen,
As you decend into the vinyl vortex, one critical decision should be made to make your future enjoyment of vinyl so much better..... Figure out how to organize your collection BEFORE it is too big and it's too late ;)
Ps - i've just spent over an hour looking for a joni mitchell lp that i'm sure i have..... Somewhere in this mess!
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely!! Very good advice.

My collection at 400+/- is not anywhere near the size of anyone else's here, but I had to get a database to keep track. The thing that prompted me to do that was purchasing a few duplicates unintentionally. Of course, developing a touch of OCD because I listen to vinyl, I shortly discovered that I like working with my database, it's almost fun because it's very detailed.
 
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