I am no more an audiophile !

McIntosh have traditionally made great amps and feel that is the strength of their brand.

As for price in Australia, McIntosh has now doubled also! The stronger $USD has something to do with this.
 
My two cents: McIntosh is not an audiophile sounds brand - but definitely for the music lover. I've always enjoyed my Mc gear. The only amps that disappointed were the 1.2kws I had, but maybe that's because I directly compared them to the mighty 2301's.


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This is really deep. I will, of course, side with Dan... "I think of myself as an audio enthusiast".
 
This is formerly known as Bluemcintosh as Mike mentioned :) We've been spoke about the Audiophile sounds VS Musical Sounds over and over for more than a year. We all know that there are no definite answer for these.

I consider myself as Musical Sounds lover and I am carefully building up my system around it. I made several mistake over the last few years and wasted so much money but I took it as my lesson to find the sounds I'm after.... Sometimes actually most of time we are listening with not only ears more with our eyes and make wrong decision to purchase the gear with your brain and eyes. Don't get me wrong there are nothing wrong with that as long as you are happy with your choice of gear but I wasn't happy with what I had. No, I should say I knew I could build up the better sounds with less money.

Last year Mike had a very interesting blindfold test ( which means they will listen to them only with their ears) on power amps. The MC601's beat all other hi-end amps on his blind test. However , Now I am wondering out of 5 people who got involved in that test. If there any of them purchase/own the MC601 now ? ( without the blindfold in their eyes) ....
 
Paul said:
This is formerly known as Bluemcintosh as Mike mentioned :) We've been spoke about the Audiophile sounds VS Musical Sounds over and over for more than a year. We all know that there are no definite answer for these.

I consider myself as Musical Sounds lover and I am carefully building up my system around it. I made several mistake over the last few years and wasted so much money but I took it as my lesson to find the sounds I'm after.... Sometimes actually most of time we are listening with not only ears more with our eyes and make wrong decision to purchase the gear with your brain and eyes. Don't get me wrong there are nothing wrong with that as long as you are happy with your choice of gear but I wasn't happy with what I had. No, I should say I knew I could build up the better sounds with less money.

Last year Mike had a very interesting blindfold test ( which means they will listen to them only with their ears) on power amps. The MC601's beat all other hi-end amps on his blind test. However , Now I am wondering out of 5 people who got involved in that test. If there any of them purchase/own the MC601 now ? ( without the blindfold in their eyes) ....
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That's a good question Paul. The answer is no, but ironically, they all still remember the test and talk about the 601's. What HAS happened over the past year is they've all had time to create a laundry list of excuses as to WHY they chose the 601's. LOL.
 
steve, my wife agrees with you against me: she says the vintage people buy vintage not because they are broke, but because they like the vintage sound... fair enough... still i maintain you have 100k of Mcintosh gear and they are not vintage...

For those who had an opportunity to hear both : what would be the best mark Levinson, say, ML 20.5 100W class A (here between 4 and 6000 €) and LAMM M1.1 (25.000 €) ? same power same look, same class... two different periods of time... Which is better ?

Another distinction I wanted to adress here is : gear suitable to listen to ANALOG RECORDED music versus gear suitable to listen to DIGITALLY processed music (electro, RNB, HIP HOP, easy listening, ragga, etc...). might not be the same....
 
Interesting topic and to me, the devil lies within ourselves. Whether it is the marketing power, the actual performance as a persuasion, I could never tell for sure. In the end, after so many years of gears chasing - and to think I did for once thought I will stop at AV, how wrong I was UNTIL ... I started to starve myself from, first HiFi and then music. I don't claim I found enlightenment, but for sure, I now know what I should be going after, simply, LISTEN TO THE MUSIC rather than reading and listening to reviews and more persuasion.
Finally, I came to the conclusion and decide to STOP the chase, buy something (and I chose VINTAGE) I like without breaking the bank and live happily ever after. Why VINTAGE? Because I yearn and long to listen to the music I grew up with - the 70's and slowly back tracked to the 60's and 50's where I learn to love songs from these era (Nat King Cole, Jim Reeves ...etc, ...) as I grew up. I am looking forward to mid July when I can fully appreciate the HYBRID VINTAGE system I've amassed (Hybrid as amps are McIntosh commemorative reissues while source are new McIntosh creation. Just plain ole' Vinyls ... CD's and the Radio, in that order. Yes, analogue radio! The Sooloos? Nice but digital music is for casual, background music. Not that its bad, but I've learn to like whatever Vinyl can bring ... warts and all and loved it! Speakers? Well, good OLD JBL .. and indeed old as its a pair of 40 plus vintage rebuild and restored to mint cond.
Would I buy a modern top end combo as a second system? Knowing myself, I would and dare not say "never". But, until then, its just plain good music ... and NOT musical chairs on gears!
So Jerome, I am joining you ... JUST MUSIC and no more gears chasing! And my wife has never been more happy after so many years of marriage!
Cheers!
 
I agree totally with this line of thinking. My version of this is: I always feel bad buying gear; I always feel good buying music. Musicphiles first! Audiophiles no!
 
With regards to modern top end or some would classify as "audiophile sound brand" as scientifically measured sound reproduction. Well, I find a dried piece of toast to be just that, difficult to swallow.

There are scientific instruments and there a musical instruments. I'm not at all advocating that high end is sterile and devour of life in favour of sound with tonal coloration but would suggest that this discussion compares to the analogue vs digital argument. Tape vs PCM, Lampizator vs Sabre.

Great HiFi reproduction has the ability to transport you the soul and feeling of the music. High end HiFi that boast scientific accuracy isn't accurate at all. I believe the act of measurement in the pursuit of accuracy, has the potential to change the reproductive musical outcome or natural essence of the recording.
 
Steve said:
the act of measurement in the pursuit of accuracy, has the potential to change the reproductive musical outcome or natural essence of the recording.
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Very interesting. I never thought of it that way. [emoji106]


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jahjahlove said:
Jérome,
I went through this not so long ago.
My conclusions: yes there was a time when the bass drivers were weighting 25 kg and these are still working, and working damn fine, 30, 40 years after their production date.
Yes the “making money first and formost” conception has taken over most of companies, if not all, and the “mark Levinson early time” approach is vanishing almost averywhere.
Yes advertising is fulling us with shit all day long, and nowadays specs are increased rather than conservatively asssumed (my 275 has been measured at 90 or 100 W…for instance, same for the ML when he was in charged).
BUT: technology make some progesses as you might well be aware, and in every fields including audio components.
Conclusion: stuff well done today outperform stuff well done in the past.
But : yes stuff well done in the past will outperform plastic shit made today, of course!
(no need to say that stuff well done today are better than bad stuff from the past, I think you got the message…)
A Sansui 555 at 200 € on “le bon coin” (French second hand sale site) will certainly outperform a lot of integrated below 3000 €… and some JBL 4430 at 2500 € will equal some Pierre Etienne Leon at 7500 € …. So vintage is good for poor audiophiles… Now rich audiophiles (like some of you on this site….) will buy the best of today’s production wich clearly outperform vintage gear.
For instance of all this: the C22 CE (1900-2100 € second hand) was killing the C220 (5500 € new) but was beaten badly by the Bryston BP17 (3900 € with the phono option and the 20 years warranty)…
So dry you tears and come on back in the more of this less on that silly game…
David
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Hello David,

I do not agree.

I had the C220 and changed the stock tubes for Nos Telefunken and it outperformed completely the MX110 and C22CE.
I also had the 2301's during 3 years and they were beaten badly by my MC225.
TO MY EARS.
So there is no absolute rule.
 
Jerome, here's another perspective for you regarding audio gear, one of my recent investments:


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1455003845.344108.jpg


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Jerome W said:
My dream would be to play a music instrument. But I do not trust my hands and brains anymore. :(
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Don't know about the hands, but the brain is no problem. If you believe Chuck Berry, that is:

"...Where lived a country boy named Johnny B. Goode
Who never ever learned to read or write so well
But he could play the guitar just like a ringing a bell..."



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Jerome W said:
Hello David,

I do not agree.

I had the C220 and changed the stock tubes for Nos Telefunken and it outperformed completely the MX110 and C22CE.
I also had the 2301's during 3 years and they were beaten badly by my MC225.
TO MY EARS.
So there is no absolute rule.
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Then wen need to come back to one of your first post in this thread about subjectivity and objectivity.
Of course in art and everything that have to do with feelings one swims in total subjectivity. But This is not to say that everything is subjective and no one is right, or that because of this what Mike thinks about this unit is of total irrelevance to me provided I am a different person... Otherwise we would'nt be interested in 3/4 of what is said here...
What is objective or should be, is the characteristics of the unit in question. Is it powerfull, is it warm, is it analytical, is it not so precise but musical, and so on... this can be asserted objectively. From this on, one can say I like this unit, or I don't.
It is what Coluche meant by "les couleurs vont à l 'égout". Total relativism, stating there is no truth what soever only subjetcivity is a dangerous doctrine...

Apart from that you prefered the MC 225 to the 2301.... or the C220 to the C22CE... nothing to say about you feelings they are yours and should be respected as such.
The C220 is soft, non dynamic, too polite to be honest, as we say, clean but dull. The C22CE is very nervous (the 275 needs a firm hand IMO) more noisy but so much more musical. These are not subjectives. Now one can prefer the C220.
 
I was on the Merry-Go-Round for a while too. When you are constantly changing gear,I think,you start to fall into the trap of critical listening instead of musical listening. Every good piece of gear I've purchased always had trade offs, and that's understandable because there is no such thing as perfection. I went through several sets of speakers, and finally returned to the ones that I don't think about how they sound, I just listen to the music.

I recently bought a new TT and I'm very happy with it. But like Dan, I have no more lust for new gear. I'm as content as I've ever been, and now the only thing I want to purchase is new music. It feels so good to be in such a great place!
 
MDP said:
I was on the Merry-Go-Round for a while too. When you are constantly changing gear,I think,you start to fall into the trap of critical listening instead of musical listening. Every good piece of gear I've purchased always had trade offs, and that's understandable because there is no such thing as perfection. I went through several sets of speakers, and finally returned to the ones that I don't think about how they sound, I just listen to the music.

I recently bought a new TT and I'm very happy with it. But like Dan, I have no more lust for new gear. I'm as content as I've ever been, and now the only thing I want to purchase is new music. It feels so good to be in such a great place!
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One day Mark I'll get there, but I would also like to shoot constant low 70's on the golf course to :S
 
Steve said:
What? Don't you do pearly white crowns? :roflmao:
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Steve,

It took me 10 years of very hard work ( 12 hours a day ) to learn how to use my fingers for my job. And I am still not very skilled. When I see my wife working, I feel like a donkey ! ;)
Hopefully orthodontics science made this discipline more an intellectual one than a dexterity matter. You do not need anymore to have gold fingers to do it. Everything is in the brain.
I won't have the patience and the time for the efforts needed to learn how to play an instrument. Still I always have the idea in a side of my mind.
 
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