GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter

[aKnyght]

puma cat, kuoppis, peter: thanks for your responses which have greatly increased my understanding of how a raw digital audio stream can be transmitted over ethernet to a DAC.

just to clarify: in questions and comments above where i referred to "decoding", i was speaking of the process performed by a software codec which decompresses audio files and creates the PCM/PDM raw digital audio data... as opposed to the hardware digital-to-analog-converter which decodes this digital data into an analog signal.

thanks again for helping clear this up. i suppose all that is left now, as peter mentions, is to determine whether or not to believe the fingerprint theory.

 

[Puma Cat]

puma cat, kuoppis, peter: thanks for your responses which have greatly increased my understanding of how a raw digital audio stream can be transmitted over ethernet to a DAC.

thanks again for helping clear this up.I suppose all that is left now, as peter mentions, is to determine whether or not to believe the fingerprint theory.

Its not a theory; you can see the distortions and waveforms with the correct analyzer. John Swenson spent over 30 years as an electronics engineer working the digital telecommunications industry, including for Broadcom. He used to design the chips that are involved in transmisstion of digital data. I'm confident if he says there is an impact of clocks, timing errors, phase clock noise on a digital fingerprint (analog square wave), causing smearing of that fingerprint, you can pretty much take it to the bank.

Here is the ideal hypothetical wave form of an analog square wave, representing a digital bitstream...

Here is one example of what it really looks like

The distortions shown above are audible.

 

[triodesteve]

Didn't expect this.
I put a Gigafoil into my Roon chain and was not just unimpressed, I thought it was a step backward. Music now seemed more "digital". More hi-fi-ish and just not enjoyable. I listen mostly to Tidal theses days but on a whim switched over to music from my NAS. Wow....music coming from my NAS is now much improved. Foot tapping and dance inducing.
So what does this mean?
I've read that people don't think streaming sounds as good as locally store music. I never heard a difference....until now. I'm kind of bummed. I love the selection and immediate gratification I get from Tidal. But it sounds less than pleasing (a real letdown honestly). How am I going to fix this? A Totaldac server is not in my future sadly.

 

[MRJAZZ]

Didn't expect this.
I put a Gigafoil into my Roon chain and was not just unimpressed, I thought it was a step backward. Music now seemed more "digital". More hi-fi-ish and just not enjoyable. I listen mostly to Tidal theses days but on a whim switched over to music from my NAS. Wow....music coming from my NAS is now much improved. Foot tapping and dance inducing.
So what does this mean?
I've read that people don't think streaming sounds as good as locally store music. I never heard a difference....until now. I'm kind of bummed. I love the selection and immediate gratification I get from Tidal. But it sounds less than pleasing (a real letdown honestly). How am I going to fix this? A Totaldac server is not in my future sadly.

Get an INNUOS server......you will pleasantly be surprised as to how much better both your streamed music is , as well, as NAS, ETC.....
CHEERS.....

 

[Leatherneck]

Didn't expect this.
I put a Gigafoil into my Roon chain and was not just unimpressed, I thought it was a step backward. Music now seemed more "digital". More hi-fi-ish and just not enjoyable. I listen mostly to Tidal theses days but on a whim switched over to music from my NAS. Wow....music coming from my NAS is now much improved. Foot tapping and dance inducing.
So what does this mean?
I've read that people don't think streaming sounds as good as locally store music. I never heard a difference....until now. I'm kind of bummed. I love the selection and immediate gratification I get from Tidal. But it sounds less than pleasing (a real letdown honestly). How am I going to fix this? A Totaldac server is not in my future sadly.

Can you let us know what your system looks like. Your problem may be something simple to fix.

In my case, I was happy with streaming Tidal, Internet Radio, etc. but felt that music from my Lumin L1 (NAS) sounded a bit better. Now after making changes to my home network, streaming from the Internet sounds as good as from the L1 and better than it ever has.

The changes I made were to upgrade the Ethernet cables, replace the switch with a better one and add the Gigafoil. Each change I made improved things.

It took me forever to realize how important my home network was in the scheme of things.

 

[UltraFast69]

Didn't expect this.
I put a Gigafoil into my Roon chain and was not just unimpressed, I thought it was a step backward. Music now seemed more "digital". More hi-fi-ish and just not enjoyable. I listen mostly to Tidal theses days but on a whim switched over to music from my NAS. Wow....music coming from my NAS is now much improved. Foot tapping and dance inducing.
So what does this mean?
I've read that people don't think streaming sounds as good as locally store music. I never heard a difference....until now. I'm kind of bummed. I love the selection and immediate gratification I get from Tidal. But it sounds less than pleasing (a real letdown honestly). How am I going to fix this? A Totaldac server is not in my future sadly.

Agree with Leatherneck; give us a simple flow, i.e.

? > Gigafoil > Roon NAS > DAC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[triodesteve]

coax cable into a Cisco "convertor" >ethernet to > Airport Extreme>Trendnet switch
The rest of these are hooked up to the router: Sonic Transporter running Roon-Synology NAS-Allo digione signature.
All ethernet is Blue Jeans Cable with two exceptions: from the Sonic transporter to the switch is what shipped from Small Green Computer. From the Gigafoil to the Allo is an Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable.
Power supplies are what came with each unit except the Allo (LPS on the Raspi and battery on the clean side)
Thanks
Steve

 

[Leatherneck]

coax cable into a Cisco "convertor" >ethernet to > Airport Extreme>Trendnet switch
The rest of these are hooked up to the router: Sonic Transporter running Roon-Synology NAS-Allo digione signature.
All ethernet is Blue Jeans Cable with two exceptions: from the Sonic transporter to the switch is what shipped from Small Green Computer. From the Gigafoil to the Allo is an Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable.
Power supplies are what came with each unit except the Allo (LPS on the Raspi and battery on the clean side)
Thanks
Steve

Is the Allo your streamer? You might try isolating the power sources between the Gigafoil and the Allo or plug both into a star grounded power strip. Another thing to try is a different Ethernet cable in place of the Vodka.

 

[still-one]

Agree with Leatherneck; give us a simple flow, i.e.

? > Gigafoil > Roon NAS > DAC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I just assumed most individuals inserted the GigaFOIL before a ethernet DAC not in front of the device containing Roon Core. Interesting.

 

[UltraFast69]

I just assumed most individuals inserted the GigaFOIL before a ethernet DAC not in front of the device containing Roon Core. Interesting.

Yes, the biggest bang is in front of the DAC. It sounded like this is not the case and wanted to see a clearer layout. Leatherneck asked good questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[triodesteve]

Is the Allo your streamer? You might try isolating the power sources between the Gigafoil and the Allo or plug both into a star grounded power strip. Another thing to try is a different Ethernet cable in place of the Vodka.

Yes Allo is the streamer. The I2S to Spdif board on the Allo is already electrically isolated form the Pi, and runs off a battery (that specific board)....so for all intents and purposes can't be isolated any further I believe.

Every review I've read says to place the best cable after the Gigafoil..that's what I did.

If one source sounds great and the other source doesn't, wouldn't the cause for problems be further downline? At tis stage all signals from the switch to the streamer would be treated the same.

 

[triodesteve]

The Gigafoil is right before the streamer in my set up. If you read the Totaldac streamer review on TM, the manufacturer suggested placing the gigafoil after Roon Core (assumingly because the Totaldac was good enough [and reclocking anyway] that it wasn't needed). ML said he was surprised it made an improvement in that position. I was too.

 

[Leatherneck]

Yes Allo is the streamer. The I2S to Spdif board on the Allo is already electrically isolated form the Pi, and runs off a battery (that specific board)....so for all intents and purposes can't be isolated any further I believe.

Every review I've read says to place the best cable after the Gigafoil..that's what I did.

If one source sounds great and the other source doesn't, wouldn't the cause for problems be further downline? At tis stage all signals from the switch to the streamer would be treated the same.

One thing I noticed is that you are using multiple Ethernet ports on the router. I have the same router but avoid using it as a switch too. I have one Ethernet cable going to my switch and everything else comes out of that switch.

 

[wklie]

I've read that people don't think streaming sounds as good as locally store music. I never heard a difference....until now. I'm kind of bummed. I love the selection and immediate gratification I get from Tidal. But it sounds less than pleasing (a real letdown honestly). How am I going to fix this?

I've read people do these, just FYI only and does not represent my or our position:
1. Use LPS for the modem, router, switch
2. Use a better switch

 

[triodesteve]

One thing I noticed is that you are using multiple Ethernet ports on the router. I have the same router but avoid using it as a switch too. I have one Ethernet cable going to my switch and everything else comes out of that switch.

Thanks for your help and I apologize if I appear slow on the uptake here.
When I first set all of this up I went form the cable box output to the switch. I went ethernet from switch to Apple router but it didn't work. Small Green Computer told me to set it up as I have it now. Am I missing something?

 

[triodesteve]

I've read people do these, just FYI only and does not represent my or our position:
1. Use LPS for the modem and router
2. Use a better switch after the router, and before the GigaFOIL

Thanks Peter. The NAS that sounds so good goes thru the same switch. I'm thinking that I start at the cable box and work my way back. Its funny that we now have "improved" routers, switches, etc. but the box that coverts coax to ethernet is still bog standard from the cable company (at least where I live)
Steve

 

[Leatherneck]

Thanks for your help and I apologize if I appear slow on the uptake here.
When I first set all of this up I went form the cable box output to the switch. I went ethernet from switch to Apple router but it didn't work. Small Green Computer told me to set it up as I have it now. Am I missing something?

Here's my setup: Cable from service provider>modem>router>switch>GigaFile>Lumin X1 streamer/DAC.
Also switch>NAS, switch>Naim Muso, switch>Naim Nova.
Only one cable out of the router and that is to the switch.

 

[triodesteve]

Here's my setup: Cable from service provider>modem>router>switch>GigaFile>Lumin X1 streamer/DAC.
Also switch>NAS, switch>Naim Muso, switch>Naim Nova.
Only one cable out of the router and that is to the switch.

Thats exactly how mine is set up...sorry if my nomenclature was bad )I forgot it was called a modem!)

 

[Puma Cat]

coax cable into a Cisco "convertor" >ethernet to > Airport Extreme>Trendnet switch
The rest of these are hooked up to the router: Sonic Transporter running Roon-Synology NAS-Allo digione signature.
All ethernet is Blue Jeans Cable with two exceptions: from the Sonic transporter to the switch is what shipped from Small Green Computer. From the Gigafoil to the Allo is an Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable.
Power supplies are what came with each unit except the Allo (LPS on the Raspi and battery on the clean side)
Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve,
So what/where is the router in your configuration? Its not clear to me. Is it the Airport Extreme?

I'd also recommend using a linear power supply for the switch if it is using an SMPS presently. Good and affordable ones can be obtained from Jameco in a range of voltages for approximately $11.

Thanks,
Stephen aka PC

 

[Leatherneck]

Thats exactly how mine is set up...sorry if my nomenclature was bad )I forgot it was called a modem!)

When I first installed the Gigafoil, I experienced poor sound. I took the Gigafoil and it's power cord completely out of the circuit and everything was fine. I put it back and it was great. Then I replaced my Cisco switch with the AQVOX and it's even better.
I can't explain it There are some differences in cable dressing and I plugged the Gigafoil into a different place in the power strip.