GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter

I see your point. They have to do media conversions to go from copper to fiber and then back to copper. It's passing the media through Fiber cables that provides the benefits. It seems very quiet and smooth with more depth than RJ45. I'll compare the Gigafoil with using fiber between my switch and X1.
 
An FMC is an Ethernet media converter that converts RJ45 Ethernet media to/from SC Fiber. Both my X1 and my Cisco switch support SFP ports that accept Gigabit SFP transceivers that produce Fiber output. The SFP transceivers are small units that plug into the SFP ports and accept LC Fiber cable. In my case, I have SFP transceivers plugged into the Cisco and X1 which permits me to connect the two devices with a $27 Fiber cable. The resulting sound is very quiet and produces more depth than normal Ethernet cable. RJ45 is sometimes called copper to differentiate from Fiber.

In cases where a device does not support SFP ports, you can use two FMC media converters connected with Fiber cable and provides R-J45 ports on both ends.

The Gigafoil is a filter for Ethernet networks. It uses Fiber to accomplish this. I have one on order that I plan to use between my switch and my X1. I also have an AQVOX switch on order that's somewhere between Germany and Arizona. There is nothing wrong with my Cisco switch. It was recommended by our friend from Lumin and supports both R45J Ethernet and has two SFP ports as well. IMO that's worth more than $100 because it eliminates the need to buy two FMC modules.

The cost of the hardware to support Fiber is low. FMC modules cost less than $60 on Amazon. SFP transceivers are $10 to $15. Fiber cable is dirt cheap.

There may be some errors in my description of things but I've only been exposed to this technology recently.

1) Is there a distinction between an SFP transceiver and an SFP module?

2) What is the model number of your Cisco switch?
 
1) Is there a distinction between an SFP transceiver and an SFP module?

2) What is the model number of your Cisco switch?
The SFP module is a transceiver. Gigabit SFP LC single mode transceiver mini-GBIC module for Cisco (1310mm) (16.99 each on Amazon)

The Cisco switch is a Cisco Systems 24-port Gigabit Switch (SG11224NA) (143.48 on Amazon)
 
The SFP module is a transceiver. Gigabit SFP LC single mode transceiver mini-GBIC module for Cisco (1310mm) (16.99 each on Amazon)

The Cisco switch is a Cisco Systems 24-port Gigabit Switch (SG11224NA) (143.48 on Amazon)

Thanks. When I first read your previous post I misread "FMC module" as "SFP module."
 
Interested in the differences between the Gigafoil and the FMC. Did you power either from a linear supply? Any special cables?
I had some experience connecting my Cisco switch directly to my Lumin X1 using Fiber cable. I also made the connection using an FMC on one end. I liked the results enough to purchase a Gigafoil under the misconception that I could somehow affect my whole network with one Gigafoil.

I'm using the Gigafoil between my switch and my Lumin X1. I use an Ansuz D2 Ethernet cable from the switch to the Gigafoil and an Ansuz Mainz X Ethernet cable from the Gigafoil to the Lumin X1.

I began with my go-to Ethernet cable out of the Gigafoil, a Nordost Haimdall 2. I was disappointed in the results so I tried the X-series and the results are more than satisfying. This provided the most detail along with warmth and presence.

I had already invested in the Ansuz D2 before buying the Gigafoil. I might have got along with a less costly cable between the switch and the Gigafoil. The D2 is four times the price of the X-series. The Ansuz X-series ethernet cable is about the same price as the Haimdall, $800+ for a 2 meter cable. I've replaced the Haimdall 2 with the Ansuz X in two places, Gigafoil to Lumin X1 and switch to Lumin L1. In both cases the Ansuz X is clearly better. I've ordered two more X-series from Denmark to use in my network.

The Haimdall's have one major advantage, they are far more flexible. Connecting the Gigafoil between the two big, stiff Ansuz cables makes cable dressing impossible.

I do have an aftermarket power supply for the Gigafoil, an iPower.
 
I had some experience connecting my Cisco switch directly to my Lumin X1 using Fiber cable. I also made the connection using an FMC on one end. I liked the results enough to purchase a Gigafoil under the misconception that I could somehow affect my whole network with one Gigafoil.

I'm using the Gigafoil between my switch and my Lumin X1. I use an Ansuz D2 Ethernet cable from the switch to the Gigafoil and an Ansuz Mainz X Ethernet cable from the Gigafoil to the Lumin X1.

I began with my go-to Ethernet cable out of the Gigafoil, a Nordost Haimdall 2. I was disappointed in the results so I tried the X-series and the results are more than satisfying. This provided the most detail along with warmth and presence.

I had already invested in the Ansuz D2 before buying the Gigafoil. I might have got along with a less costly cable between the switch and the Gigafoil. The D2 is four times the price of the X-series. The Ansuz X-series ethernet cable is about the same price as the Haimdall, $800+ for a 2 meter cable. I've replaced the Haimdall 2 with the Ansuz X in two places, Gigafoil to Lumin X1 and switch to Lumin L1. In both cases the Ansuz X is clearly better. I've ordered two more X-series from Denmark to use in my network.

The Haimdall's have one major advantage, they are far more flexible. Connecting the Gigafoil between the two big, stiff Ansuz cables makes cable dressing impossible.

I do have an aftermarket power supply for the Gigafoil, an iPower.

I’m following your journey! Looking forward to hearing how things progress.
 
Thanks Mike. My new AQVox switch is due to arrive today. More Ansuz Mainz X Ethernets in a couple of weeks. It seems I've spent my whole audiophile life waiting for something to arrive or something to break-in.

I thought long and hard about obtaining AudioQuest Diamonds from you rather than the Ansuz kit but old habits are hard to break. Fortunately, I'm pleased with the results.

BTW, the Lumin L1 is an expensive NAS but it works beautifully and sounds better than my Synology NAS. It's small, simple to use and beautiful. I wish it was black to go with my X1.
 
This thread has opened my eyes to the potential SQ improvement hidden in my ethernet chain. As a devote digital only music lover streaming from Tidal/Qobuz and from my NAS, I had always thought that signal was ‘bits are bits’. Boy was I wrong.

The addition of a Gigafoil v4 and Keces P3 and most recently a 9 meter run of Supra Cat 8+ Ethernet cable have in total, kicked my system up a notch or two. It is simple more cohesive/seamless - integrated.

Thabk you to all you pioneers for showing me there was ‘more’ out there!
 
This thread has opened my eyes to the potential SQ improvement hidden in my ethernet chain. As a devote digital only music lover streaming from Tidal/Qobuz and from my NAS, I had always thought that signal was ‘bits are bits’. Boy was I wrong.

The addition of a Gigafoil v4 and Keces P3 and most recently a 9 meter run of Supra Cat 8+ Ethernet cable have in total, kicked my system up a notch or two. It is simple more cohesive/seamless - integrated.

Thabk you to all you pioneers for showing me there was ‘more’ out there!

Good to hear your getting positive results from the upgrades. I've put Supra ethernet cables throughout my digital end with the exception of a Cardas ethernet from the GigaFoil to my preamp. The Supra cable are a affordable way to upgrade IMO.
 
This thread has opened my eyes to the potential SQ improvement hidden in my ethernet chain. As a devote digital only music lover streaming from Tidal/Qobuz and from my NAS, I had always thought that signal was ‘bits are bits’. Boy was I wrong.

The addition of a Gigafoil v4 and Keces P3 and most recently a 9 meter run of Supra Cat 8+ Ethernet cable have in total, kicked my system up a notch or two. It is simple more cohesive/seamless - integrated.

Thabk you to all you pioneers for showing me there was ‘more’ out there!

Hi Craig,

I've seen many folks state that many things cannot possibly impact digital playback because, "Bits are Bits".

The reality is that digital playback stream is not comprised of "bits". Bits are only the format in which the data is stored, essentially. What is actually being "transferred" in any digital playback system are analog square waves, which I'm sure you know are very hard to pass perfectly.

In metallic conductors, e.g., Ethernet cables and USB cables, the signal tranmission of these analog square waves are susceptible, as you have found out, to EMI/RFI 'contamination" which impacts the shape and timing of these square waves. They are also susceptible, as I just found out in the last week, to low-impedance and high-impedance leakage currents. These leakage currents are AC harmonic currents (at 60, 120, 180 Hz) cause ground loops that travel down metallic conductors and are also deleterious to signal quality. Your GigaFOIL does not pass these, but it does pass...clock phase noise, which can arise from these leakage currents and the poor clocks in everything upstream of your DAC (e.g. routers, Wifi Extenders, Ethernet switches, FMCs, etc., etc.). The biggest culprits for the low- and high-impedance leakage currents are the notorious SMPS: switch mode power supplies. If you want to take your system further, replace every SMPS in your playback chain (including the cable modem, router, Ethernet switch) with a proper linear power supply.

While using ifber will block the leakage currents from passing "down the line", it does not prevent clock phase noise.

Here is John Swenson, who discovered the high-impedance leakage currents only at the end of 2017, discussing clock phase noise as it pertains to the development of the forthcoming EtherREGEN from Uptone Audio:

________________________________________

"The understanding of "isolation" in digital audio has been my passion for at least 10 years. There is a LOT of misunderstanding on the subject floating around in audio circles. Here is a quick summary of my current understanding and how the current products fit in with this.

There seems to be TWO independent mechanisms involved: leakage current and clock phase noise. Various amounts of these two exist in any system. Different "isolation" technologies out there address one or the other, but very rarely both at the same time. Some technologies that attenuate one actually increase the other. Thus the massively confusing information out there.

Leakage current is a property of power supplies. It is the leakage of AC mains frequency (50/60 Hz) into the DC output. It is usually common mode (ie exists on BOTH the + and - wires at the same time, this makes it a bit difficult to see. There seems to be two different types, one that comes from linear supplies and is fairly easy to block, and an additional type that comes from SMPS and is MUCH harder to block. An SMPS contains BOTH types. They are BOTH line frequency.

Unfortunately in our modern times where essentially all computer equipment is powered by SMPS we have to deal with this situation of both leakage types coming down cables from our computer equipment. There are many devices on the market (I have designed some of them) for both USB and Ethernet, most can deal with the type from linear supplies but only a few can deal with the type from SMPS.

Optical connections (when the power supplies are completely isolated from each other) CAN completely block all forms of leakage, it is extremely effective. Optical takes care of leakage, but does not deal with the second mechanism.

Clock phase noise

Phase noise is a frequency measurement of "jitter", yes that term that is so completely mis-understood in audio circles that I'm not going to use it. Phase noise is a way to look at the frequency spectrum of jitter, the reason to use it is that there seems to be fairly decent correlation to sound quality. Note this has nothing to do with "pico seconds" or "femto seconds". Forget those terms, they do not directly have meaning in audio, what matters is the phase noise. Ynfortunately phase noise is shown on a graph, not a single number, so it is much harder to directly compare units. This subject is HUGE and I'm not going to go into any more detail here.

Different oscillators (the infamous "clocks" that get talked about) can have radically different phase noise. The level of phase noise that is very good for digital audio is very difficult to achieve and costs money. The corollary is that the cheap clocks used in most computer equipment (including network equipment) produce phase noise that is very bad for digital audio.

The important thing to understand is that ALL digital signals carry the "fingerprint" of the clock used to produce them. When a signal coming from a box with cheap clocks comes into a box (via Ethernet or USB etc) with a much better clock, the higher level of phase noise carried on the data signal can contaminate the phase noise of the "good" clock in the second box. Exactly how this happens is complicated, I've written about this in detail if you want to look it up and see what is going on.

The contamination is not complete, every time the signal gets "reclocked" by a much better clock the resulting signal carries an attenuated version of the first clock layered on top of the fingerprint of the second clock. The word "reclocked" just means the signal is regenerated by a circuit fed a different clock. It may be a better or a worse clock, reclocking doesn't always make things better!

As an example if you start with an Ethernet signal coming out of a cheap switch, the clock fingerprint is going to be pretty bad. If this goes into a circuit with a VERY good clock, the signal coming out contains a reduced fingerprint from the first clock layered on top of the good clock. If you feed THIS signal into another circuit with a very good clock, the fingerprint from the original clock gets reduced even further. But if you feed this signal into a box with a bad clock, you are back to a signal with a bad fingerprint.

The summary is that stringing together devices with GOOD clocking can dramatically attenuate the results of an upstream bad clock.

The latest devices form Sonore take on BOTH of these mechanisms that effect sound: optical for blocking leakage and multiple reclocking with very good clocks. The optical part should be obvious. A side benefit of the optical circuit is that is completely regenerates the signal with a VERY low phase noise clock, this is a one step reclocking. It attenuates effects from upstream circuits but does not completely get rid of them. This is where the opticalModule comes into play, if you put an opticalModule in the path to the opticalRendu you are adding another reclocking with VERY good clocking. The result is a very large attenuation of upstream effects. It's not completely zero, but it is close.

The fact that the opticalRendu is a one stage reclocking (which leaves some effects from upstage circuits) is why changing switches etc can still make a difference. Adding an OpticalModule between the switch and opticalRendu reduces that down to vanishingly small differences.

So an optical module by itself adds both leakage elimination and significant clock effects attenuation. TWO optical modules in series give you the two level reclocking .
- John Swenson

Bottom-line: Your GigaFOIL is great for preventing leakage currents, but will do nothing to prevent clock phase noise. The most important thing one can do is to ensure that you have the maximal quality clocks from the source to the playback device. This is why putting Ethernet switches, or OpticalModules in series helps with clock phase noise.

Best,
Stephen
 
Thanks Stephen, nice write-up.

In your view, would there be a way to create a perfect signal?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Puma,

I have never heard a straight answer on which Clock is doing what until your post, and still need to read this probably a few more times.

When I break it down, I can see why each category is so close, and the N10 from the SSD beats the Oppo Transport

When streaming;

AQVox SE - Clock
Gigafoil
Aurender N10 - Clock
Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock

When playing from the N10:

Aurender N10 - Clock
Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock

When playing from the Oppo Transport:

Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Puma,

I have never heard a straight answer on which Clock is doing what until your post, and still need to read this probably a few more times.

When I break it down, I can see why each category is so close, and the N10 from the SSD beats the Oppo Transport

When streaming;

AQVox SE - Clock
Gigafoil
Aurender N10 - Clock
Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock

When playing from the N10:

Aurender N10 - Clock
Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock

When playing from the Oppo Transport:

Brinkmann Nyquist MK II - Clock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yup.

I only learned of a lot of this in the last week or so, but I will admit I have reading and researching about it extensively.

Another key factor that plays into this is effective grounding as well, but that's another digression.

I have come to the conclusion, though, that the old saw, "Bits are bits" is bullish*t.
 
I had some experience connecting my Cisco switch directly to my Lumin X1 using Fiber cable. I also made the connection using an FMC on one end. I liked the results enough to purchase a Gigafoil under the misconception that I could somehow affect my whole network with one Gigafoil.

I'm using the Gigafoil between my switch and my Lumin X1. I use an Ansuz D2 Ethernet cable from the switch to the Gigafoil and an Ansuz Mainz X Ethernet cable from the Gigafoil to the Lumin X1.

I began with my go-to Ethernet cable out of the Gigafoil, a Nordost Haimdall 2. I was disappointed in the results so I tried the X-series and the results are more than satisfying. This provided the most detail along with warmth and presence.

I had already invested in the Ansuz D2 before buying the Gigafoil. I might have got along with a less costly cable between the switch and the Gigafoil. The D2 is four times the price of the X-series. The Ansuz X-series ethernet cable is about the same price as the Haimdall, $800+ for a 2 meter cable. I've replaced the Haimdall 2 with the Ansuz X in two places, Gigafoil to Lumin X1 and switch to Lumin L1. In both cases the Ansuz X is clearly better. I've ordered two more X-series from Denmark to use in my network.

The Haimdall's have one major advantage, they are far more flexible. Connecting the Gigafoil between the two big, stiff Ansuz cables makes cable dressing impossible.

I do have an aftermarket power supply for the Gigafoil, an iPower.

Thank you for the reply and the efforts undertaken to optimise the noise reduction of Ethernet. I also had the Heimdall in mind, but now hesitate based on your experience with them. For the FMC route, each FMC needs a PSU, and the costs start to climb, so am leaning away from this complexity . I try to keep it simple with a JCAT NET FEMTO at the music server, 25m cat 5 direct to a Lumin U1. The sound is very good, great image, the Gigafoil appeals since it is one stop, and not spread out over many devices to remove that last bit of noise.
 
Hi Craig,

I've seen many folks state that many things cannot possibly impact digital playback because, "Bits are Bits".

The reality is that digital playback stream is not comprised of "bits". Bits are only the format in which the data is stored, essentially. What is actually being "transferred" in any digital playback system are analog square waves, which I'm sure you know are very hard to pass perfectly.

In metallic conductors, e.g., Ethernet cables and USB cables, the signal tranmission of these analog square waves are susceptible, as you have found out, to EMI/RFI 'contamination" which impacts the shape and timing of these square waves. They are also susceptible, as I just found out in the last week, to low-impedance and high-impedance leakage currents. These leakage currents are AC harmonic currents (at 60, 120, 180 Hz) cause ground loops that travel down metallic conductors and are also deleterious to signal quality. Your GigaFOIL does not pass these, but it does pass...clock phase noise, which can arise from these leakage currents and the poor clocks in everything upstream of your DAC (e.g. routers, Wifi Extenders, Ethernet switches, FMCs, etc., etc.). The biggest culprits for the low- and high-impedance leakage currents are the notorious SMPS: switch mode power supplies. If you want to take your system further, replace every SMPS in your playback chain (including the cable modem, router, Ethernet switch) with a proper linear power supply.

While using ifber will block the leakage currents from passing "down the line", it does not prevent clock phase noise.

Here is John Swenson, who discovered the high-impedance leakage currents only at the end of 2017, discussing clock phase noise as it pertains to the development of the forthcoming EtherREGEN from Uptone Audio:

________________________________________

"The understanding of "isolation" in digital audio has been my passion for at least 10 years. There is a LOT of misunderstanding on the subject floating around in audio circles. Here is a quick summary of my current understanding and how the current products fit in with this.

There seems to be TWO independent mechanisms involved: leakage current and clock phase noise. Various amounts of these two exist in any system. Different "isolation" technologies out there address one or the other, but very rarely both at the same time. Some technologies that attenuate one actually increase the other. Thus the massively confusing information out there.

Leakage current is a property of power supplies. It is the leakage of AC mains frequency (50/60 Hz) into the DC output. It is usually common mode (ie exists on BOTH the + and - wires at the same time, this makes it a bit difficult to see. There seems to be two different types, one that comes from linear supplies and is fairly easy to block, and an additional type that comes from SMPS and is MUCH harder to block. An SMPS contains BOTH types. They are BOTH line frequency.

Unfortunately in our modern times where essentially all computer equipment is powered by SMPS we have to deal with this situation of both leakage types coming down cables from our computer equipment. There are many devices on the market (I have designed some of them) for both USB and Ethernet, most can deal with the type from linear supplies but only a few can deal with the type from SMPS.

Optical connections (when the power supplies are completely isolated from each other) CAN completely block all forms of leakage, it is extremely effective. Optical takes care of leakage, but does not deal with the second mechanism.

Clock phase noise

Phase noise is a frequency measurement of "jitter", yes that term that is so completely mis-understood in audio circles that I'm not going to use it. Phase noise is a way to look at the frequency spectrum of jitter, the reason to use it is that there seems to be fairly decent correlation to sound quality. Note this has nothing to do with "pico seconds" or "femto seconds". Forget those terms, they do not directly have meaning in audio, what matters is the phase noise. Ynfortunately phase noise is shown on a graph, not a single number, so it is much harder to directly compare units. This subject is HUGE and I'm not going to go into any more detail here.

Different oscillators (the infamous "clocks" that get talked about) can have radically different phase noise. The level of phase noise that is very good for digital audio is very difficult to achieve and costs money. The corollary is that the cheap clocks used in most computer equipment (including network equipment) produce phase noise that is very bad for digital audio.

The important thing to understand is that ALL digital signals carry the "fingerprint" of the clock used to produce them. When a signal coming from a box with cheap clocks comes into a box (via Ethernet or USB etc) with a much better clock, the higher level of phase noise carried on the data signal can contaminate the phase noise of the "good" clock in the second box. Exactly how this happens is complicated, I've written about this in detail if you want to look it up and see what is going on.

The contamination is not complete, every time the signal gets "reclocked" by a much better clock the resulting signal carries an attenuated version of the first clock layered on top of the fingerprint of the second clock. The word "reclocked" just means the signal is regenerated by a circuit fed a different clock. It may be a better or a worse clock, reclocking doesn't always make things better!

As an example if you start with an Ethernet signal coming out of a cheap switch, the clock fingerprint is going to be pretty bad. If this goes into a circuit with a VERY good clock, the signal coming out contains a reduced fingerprint from the first clock layered on top of the good clock. If you feed THIS signal into another circuit with a very good clock, the fingerprint from the original clock gets reduced even further. But if you feed this signal into a box with a bad clock, you are back to a signal with a bad fingerprint.

The summary is that stringing together devices with GOOD clocking can dramatically attenuate the results of an upstream bad clock.

The latest devices form Sonore take on BOTH of these mechanisms that effect sound: optical for blocking leakage and multiple reclocking with very good clocks. The optical part should be obvious. A side benefit of the optical circuit is that is completely regenerates the signal with a VERY low phase noise clock, this is a one step reclocking. It attenuates effects from upstream circuits but does not completely get rid of them. This is where the opticalModule comes into play, if you put an opticalModule in the path to the opticalRendu you are adding another reclocking with VERY good clocking. The result is a very large attenuation of upstream effects. It's not completely zero, but it is close.

The fact that the opticalRendu is a one stage reclocking (which leaves some effects from upstage circuits) is why changing switches etc can still make a difference. Adding an OpticalModule between the switch and opticalRendu reduces that down to vanishingly small differences.

So an optical module by itself adds both leakage elimination and significant clock effects attenuation. TWO optical modules in series give you the two level reclocking .
- John Swenson

Bottom-line: Your GigaFOIL is great for preventing leakage currents, but will do nothing to prevent clock phase noise. The most important thing one can do is to ensure that you have the maximal quality clocks from the source to the playback device. This is why putting Ethernet switches, or OpticalModules in series helps with clock phase noise.

Best,
Stephen

I have read where people have connected two of the SoTM switches with external clock inputs together with a common external Master Clock and achieves the best they have heard in their systems. That result is consistent with what Mr. Swenson is talking about. While my Cybershaft can serve as the Master Clock for more devices and the view at the top of that hill may be better, it would be a very steep hill to climb for me. Two of those switches plus two more Shunyata Alpha cables would bring me over $5,000. But I am watching and learning and very interested in next steps.
 
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