Every once in a while...

[nicoff]

Note that his system already has 31% of MRSP in cables and Power distributor.

Also, of the total msrp, 26% is for speakers which I believe is too low. Discloser: I am in the camp of those who like a ‘speaker-heavy’ system.

I wonder if Mike would consider selecting another system of similar cost but where the speakers are 75% of total cost. He could set up two different rooms in his store and let folks to listen to both. That should be a good experiment!

 

[BlueFox]

Re: Everyone once in a while...

I was adding it up in my head. Not quite.

$13K x260.8 amps
$9500 xp22 preamp
$13K MSB DAC (this one has Roon module and dual PSU)
$21,800 A5 speakers
$10k Alpha V2 power cables (5)
$4k Alpa V2 speaker cables
$600 Alpha Ethernet
$6000 for all the Alpha V2 IC’s
$5000 6000 V/2 PC

$82,900 MSRP

LOTS of money indeed, but seriously seriously great sounding.

It is a little amazing how the system price adds up when everything is counted.

 

[u-sound]

the speaker is the little part, its all about how you feed them.

a5 + alpha2 loom.....vs .....s5mk2 with stock cords
about the same price, i think the s5 would sound poor compared

 

[Puma Cat]

Re: Everyone once in a while...

Note that his system already has 31% of MRSP in cables and Power distributor.

Which is as it should be.

You wouldn't build a luxury home and skimp on the foundation.

 

[Alpinist]

The purchaser doesn’t have to do the whole system at once. XP22 and power cords could be added later.

Ken

 

[Puma Cat]

The purchaser doesn’t have to do the whole system at once. XP22 and power cords could be added later.

Ken

Respectfully, that would be about the worst thing you could do to a powerful power amp, and more so with a Class A power amp like the Pass 260.8. The basic premise of a Class-A amp is that the output device(s) shall conduct all the time (through 360 degrees of the signal waveform). This means that in the simplest form, the power devices in a Class A amp must conduct a continuous current which exceeds the maximum peak load (loudspeaker) current.

With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains.

This is like putting a small intake manifold on a Formula 1 car. and giving it 89 octane pump gasoline. it's going to be starved of horsepower just as it really needs it going up the hill to Eau Rouge.

And BTW, you want to be "flat" through Eau Rouge...

 

[BlueFox]

Yes, Pass makes great gear, but the power cords they provide aren’t worth crap.

 

[Alpinist]

Respectfully, that would be about the worst thing you could do to a powerful power amp like the Pass 260.8. With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains.

This is like putting a small intake manifold on a Formula 1 car. and giving it 89 octane pump gasoline. it's going to be starved of horsepower just as it really needs it going up the hill to Eau Rouge.

And BTW, you want to be "flat" through Eau Rouge...

Respectfully, your statement is inaccurate. Inexpensive power cords can be added in the interim that will provide full current delivery and the preamp can be added later. I owned Pass XA-100.5 and XA-100.8 monoblocks for years and my personal experience bears this out.

My point is this system can be built over time and is not an all or nothing proposition. These scenarios usually result in the nothing choice when no other viable options are provided.

Ken

 

[Puma Cat]

Respectfully, your statement is inaccurate. Inexpensive power cords can be added in the interim that will provide full current delivery and the preamp can be added later. I owned Pass XA-100.5 and XA-100.8 monoblocks for years and my personal experience bears this out.

My point is this system can be built over time and is not an all or nothing proposition. These scenarios usually result in the nothing choice when no other viable options are provided.

Ken

Yeah, I would agree with that in principle. For example, you could use PCs like the Venom HC V2s (not to be underestimated, BTW) or NR-V10s, which would be a great place to start, and add the rest later.

But using the generic stock black power cords that come with components isn't going to cut it.

But personally, I would go DOWN in the power amp or speaker engineering specification with respect to cost, and UP in the power distribution and cabling engineering specification. Then when the budget allowed, you could go up in the component(s) and/or speaker engineering specification, knowing you had the best power and signal delivery, quality, and noise reduction engineering specification as a solid foundation for the entire system. A foundation that provides benefit everywhere, not just for one component.

 

[Jack]

Well apparently Nelson doesn't agree with your assessment and based on his history and the rave reviews of his products for decades he does know what he is doing.

 

[Puma Cat]

Well apparently Nelson doesn't agree with your assessment and based on his history and the rave reviews of his products for decades he does know what he is doing.

Point #1: Nelson did not state he did not agree with my assessment.

Point #2: I never stated that Nelson does not know what he is doing, so I will respectfully request that you not misconstrue my comments by "putting words in my mouth."

Nelson Pass is a genius, in my experience.

And...getting on-topic, I think Mike has put together an outstanding system, one that I hope to hear some day.

 

[Jack]

Nobody's put words in your mouth you are the one who said that the Pass amps would not perform up to spec with the power cords that Nelson provides and need thousands of dollars of Shunyata PC's to perform at their best. Ken and I disagree with you. If Mike had proposed this system with a different brand of cables then I don't think we would even be having this discussion unless you wanted to contend that Shunyata cables were a better alternative to what he proposed.

 

[Puma Cat]

Nobody's put words in your mouth you are the one who said that the Pass amps would not perform up to spec with the power cords that Nelson provides and need thousands of dollars of Shunyata PC's to perform at their best. Ken and I disagree with you. If Mike had proposed this system with a different brand of cables then I don't think we would even be having this discussion.

No, I didn't say that. Again, you're misquoting me. I never stated that they would not perform to specification.

And they would benefit from Shunyata PCs to perform at their best, this is consistent with what Mike has stated in his first post.

 

[Jack]

"With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains."

 

[Puma Cat]

"With el cheapo black power cords, it'll get something like 40% less current that it's power supply really needs when the rectifiers snap open, particularly during dynamic passages. And, the rectifiers will be open longer as well, letting in all sorts of noise and garbage that is on the AC mains."

That does not mean the amp will not perform to specification.

 

[Jack]

:huh:

 

[Puma Cat]

Pass Labs X260.8 Technical Specifications (from Pass Labs):


Class AB
Type Mono
Gain (dB) 26
Inputs XLR/RCA
Power Output /ch (8 ohm) 260
No Output devices (/ch) 40
Power Consumption (Watts) 375
Standby Power Consumption (Watts) <1
Number of Chassis 1
Unit Dimension (W x D x H) (In.) 19 x 21.25 x 7.5
Unit Weight (LBS) 88

 

[Alpinist]

But personally, I would go DOWN in the power amp or speaker engineering specification with respect to cost, and UP in the power distribution and cabling engineering specification. Then when the budget allowed, you could go up in the component(s) and/or speaker engineering specification, knowing you had the best power and signal delivery, quality, and noise reduction engineering specification as a solid foundation for the entire system. A foundation that provides benefit everywhere, not just for one component.

Wow, now you’ve entirely lost me. You are suggesting allocating more of the budget to power products and cabling instead of initially purchasing the Magico A5’s and Pass X-260.8’s? The key elements of the wonderful system Mike has assembled are the Magico A5’s, MSB Discrete DAC and Pass X260.8’s. The XP22 preamp is also important but could be added later due to the MSB Discrete DAC’s excellent internal preamp. I think most would agree.

Ken

 

[brodricj]

$10K on power cables doesn't make much sense to me on a system with a $28K pair of speakers. But if instead of buying those power cables you tried to level up in the Magico range with that $10K, I don't think you can.

 

[Calvin]

Owning the Pass 260.8s amps has been a joy for me. I ran them for some time with the standard PCs that came with them. They were GREAT. These are absolutely amazing A/B amps. I'm so impressed with them that I'm considering Pass XP 600s in my new post-COVID system.

This said, I was a cable doubter x 10. Electricity is just electricity. Just because they are thicker and better looking doesn't mean there will be any improvement. Junk science, waste of funds, etc.

However, I was convinced by a friend (who has a great system) that they would make a definite difference. I acquired three Shunyata Alpha V1 PCs for my 260.8s and my Luxman D08u. I wasn't expecting much if any improvement. Boy was I surprised. There was just more, more, more of everything good. Better sound stage, etc. All this with just some PCs. Unbelievable. WOW!!!

IMO, a person doesn't know what they are missing until they make this - the most important of upgrades. Power Cables do make a difference. I wish I had the V2s.

Since my system is somewhat close to the one Mike has listed above I know it must sound stunning (I have A3s instead of A5s and Luxman instead of MSB).