Esoteric migrating off of AKM Dac chips for flagship D1X?

Sorry, not my photo, I plagiarized it off the internet. I haven't heard the new Grandioso. Esoteric USA told me a review sample has been made available, and a review will come in due course. There are no owner reviews posted anywhere yet either.
 
Running my D1x now, only 1 channel for a few hours now.:)

Short of rack space and need a whole house moving worth of work to rearrange the pair.

I will just leave the other channel powered until i can find time to do some relocation and free up the rack space of my 1 box player.

Whats new to the table is 3 sound modes, M1, M2 and M3 on top of upsampling of up to 16x and DSD.

Native MQA decoding via all inputs, but not until MQA certification is done.

Nice part is that the remote from my k01x now works! All input, menus and display can now work when the remote selection is turned on.
 
Have not really tried as I will want to burn each sound mode and to be honest, a while before I form a preference.
M1 is default, there is no info what it is either, but will guess each sounds different.

Personal preference and system matching will be the best answer.
 
I listened for the first time today to the combo P1X/D1X and in one word : exceptional particularly with SACD : as expected with Esoteric transparency,clarity,dynamics,soundstage but at the same time a fuller sound than the “traditional “ Esoteric sound.
Now I would like to try the DAC with another source to evaluate his own performance.

Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
moby1977 said:
I listened for the first time today to the combo P1X/D1X and in one word : exceptional particularly with SACD : as expected with Esoteric transparency,clarity,dynamics,soundstage but at the same time a fuller sound than the “traditional “ Esoteric sound.
Now I would like to try the DAC with another source to evaluate his own performance.

Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



Where did did you hear it? What was the rest of the system?
 
Adam Riess said:
Where did did you hear it? What was the rest of the system?
Click to expand...
I listened to this system in Hong Kong distributor showroom which was far from being optimal in terms of room,gear,speakers placement.
Preamp and power amp (stereo) were all Grandioso esoteric as well.
Speakers were Tannoy Prestige Canterbury.

Alex

Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk
 
Some impressions as it was a feat of back breaking rearrangements of equipment and connecting cables for the mono D1x dacs.

There has been a big improvement over the Esoteric house sound, it is fuller, denser with exceptional low level detail retrieval, and smoothness of the skin of a young fair maiden.

It retains all the highs, lows of the Esoteric sound in an exceptional balanced and natural way, with this new smoothness to the entire musical portrayal .

It doesn't sound dark, highlighted in certain frequencies nor call it warm (in a tube way) as compared to other dacs.

To me it strikes the perfect balance now and has just the right touch of "Yang" in the midrange not leaning towards calling it lean or warm; a better description is "natural sounding" and banished all last traces of digitalness.

We know the fine balance that once the character of a particular equipment is called warm, this characteristics flow on through the entire upper and lower regions as well.

I cannot make any valid comparisons to any other brands nor the equivalent older sibling, the D1, D02x or even K1 which i did not test upon acquiring the D1x as there was no reason to.

My retired K-01x which over the years with care taken on implementation of footers/isolation, cablings and of course most critically, clocking and the associated clock cables leaves no room for comparison with a unclocked and unoptimised K-01x with none of the mentioned done.

My K-01x offered years of exceptional sonic bliss to me, not nit picking, i could have still have been very happy with it, from highs to lows, i could not fault its sound, maybe, for the more connected midrange that the D1x shows what it was missing.

I can only assume, that this departure from the AKM chips used in every other Esoteric player or dac makes such reference meaningless now again a full discrete design dac.

My option to stick with Esoteric largely was based from the departure from off shelf dac chips and a true MQA dac accepting MQA for all inputs, unlike many brands which many a input card via usb or ethernet made by one MQA certified partner supplying these companies to make their dacs MQA designated. Note, this is not full MQA dac compliant where the dac designed have to be certified and tested by MQA (important note for streaming users).


For all owners of Esoteric upgraders planning on a move up this new model, i will not describe terms or oh just so real, live or analogue sounding , or the best dac i have ever heard .... over the last 30 years blah, blah, blah.

For me, the most analogue sounding , vinyl like combo was my Forsell Air bearing transport and dac, period.


My general encounters and impressions with other excellent sounding top brands of dacs are generally that have a certain characteristic, MSB > has a darker presentation; DCS > over saturated presentation, CH > rather clean and precise.

To me, no MSB, DCS, CH or Esoteric can even compare, but the Forsell could not portray dynamic rock, pop and electronic music well and i have since sold it long ago for this reason alone.

I have not owned any R2R dacs (now in hype), but as a teenager, when CD's were replacing vinyl and i had no exposure to real hi-fi of today, except what my dad was using, The first ES Sony CD player complementing a Revox open real, Marantz solid state gear with Tannoy monitor Golds back then. I recall how i felt something amiss listening to Pet Shop boys, Madonna, Michael Jackson .etc.... on my Midi Vinyl Hifi setup so nicer that the CDs through the Marantz and Monitor Gold (that was actually pretty high end back then in the early 80's.

I was then transferring my cd's on to the Revox open real for fun and 3 head cassette and vastly found the music more satisfying and enjoyable through the Marantz and Tannoy setup. To me cd's had something wrong and missing which i did not no any audiophile vocab back then, but it never crossed my mind that the much hyped superior CD and coming of the digital age a mistake back then.

We were looking out for the marking of "DDD" which meant full digital transfers which were meant to be as superior to ADD (which was an analogue to digital transfer) in the coming of the new digital age. DDD was touted as the superior technology, no forums to debate on, or receive options from others. www.com did not even exist then. Many excellent recorded vinyls were thrown in the bin - many which woud go for a few hundreds a pop second hand now!). rag and bone collected didnt even want to take them (to help dispose off for you)

The new D1x dac has made a big advancement from the Esoteric and AKM sound, every area has been improved tremendously that any seemingly touch of hardness that existed from a a properly setup and master clocked Esoteric front end has been banished.

Coming from a previous Esoteric player does not leave me finding a totally unfamiliar different character that i find good, but don't feel at home with. (don't call me a fan boy, i ditched Esoteric as a contender for an upgrade) until i found out of the discrete dac implementation,

Some further background from Japanese interviews with Esoteric designers clearly states that they have moved forward with the concept of their "Velvet sound" of their previous latest generation of products and through development with AKM.

There are rumours that development engineers from the non defunct Wadia brand joined Gibson Group, could this be a reason to venture to discrete technology.

Esoteric has retain all that and taken a big, many advanced steps forward in that direction with a new found smoothness and naturalness to the presentation.

It is unfortunate that i will not likely be add the P1x due to my CD selection dwindling over the past few years and most of my CD's waiting to be digitised as the transport has a significant sonic impact to any top rate dac.

I am confident, yet sad that i will not have the Elink connection from the P1x to the D1x to hear the full glory of CD and SACD playback.

Retiring my K-01x and using it through AES to the D1x is not a meaningful test and will not offer my opinion how it will sound played to the D1x.

I know the D1x is now providing me an excellent first class balance over the entire spectrum streaming from my Aurender W20 (every equipment fully clocked via Mutec 10m outputs, previously Cybershaft op17 clock which is comparable with the Mutec) in a relatively simple straight forward system.

I want to highlight that testing any Esoteric setup without master clocking is incomplete and opinions on the sound, discounted by 50%.
 
justubes said:
Some impressions as it was a feat of back breaking rearrangements of equipment and connecting cables for the mono D1x dacs.

There has been a big improvement over the Esoteric house sound, it is fuller, denser with exceptional low level detail retrieval, and smoothness of the skin of a young fair maiden.

It retains all the highs, lows of the Esoteric sound in an exceptional balanced and natural way, with this new smoothness to the entire musical portrayal .

It doesn't sound dark, highlighted in certain frequencies nor call it warm (in a tube way) as compared to other dacs.

To me it strikes the perfect balance now and has just the right touch of "Yang" in the midrange not leaning towards calling it lean or warm; a better description is "natural sounding" and banished all last traces of digitalness.

We know the fine balance that once the character of a particular equipment is called warm, this characteristics flow on through the entire upper and lower regions as well.

I cannot make any valid comparisons to any other brands nor the equivalent older sibling, the D1, D02x or even K1 which i did not test upon acquiring the D1x as there was no reason to.

My retired K-01x which over the years with care taken on implementation of footers/isolation, cablings and of course most critically, clocking and the associated clock cables leaves no room for comparison with a unclocked and unoptimised K-01x with none of the mentioned done.

My K-01x offered years of exceptional sonic bliss to me, not nit picking, i could have still have been very happy with it, from highs to lows, i could not fault its sound, maybe, for the more connected midrange that the D1x shows what it was missing.

I can only assume, that this departure from the AKM chips used in every other Esoteric player or dac makes such reference meaningless now again a full discrete design dac.

My option to stick with Esoteric largely was based from the departure from off shelf dac chips and a true MQA dac accepting MQA for all inputs, unlike many brands which many a input card via usb or ethernet made by one MQA certified partner supplying these companies to make their dacs MQA designated. Note, this is not full MQA dac compliant where the dac designed have to be certified and tested by MQA (important note for streaming users).


For all owners of Esoteric upgraders planning on a move up this new model, i will not describe terms or oh just so real, live or analogue sounding , or the best dac i have ever heard .... over the last 30 years blah, blah, blah.

For me, the most analogue sounding , vinyl like combo was my Forsell Air bearing transport and dac, period.


My general encounters and impressions with other excellent sounding top brands of dacs are generally that have a certain characteristic, MSB > has a darker presentation; DCS > over saturated presentation, CH > rather clean and precise.

To me, no MSB, DCS, CH or Esoteric can even compare, but the Forsell could not portray dynamic rock, pop and electronic music well and i have since sold it long ago for this reason alone.

I have not owned any R2R dacs (now in hype), but as a teenager, when CD's were replacing vinyl and i had no exposure to real hi-fi of today, except what my dad was using, The first ES Sony CD player complementing a Revox open real, Marantz solid state gear with Tannoy monitor Golds back then. I recall how i felt something amiss listening to Pet Shop boys, Madonna, Michael Jackson .etc.... on my Midi Vinyl Hifi setup so nicer that the CDs through the Marantz and Monitor Gold (that was actually pretty high end back then in the early 80's.

I was then transferring my cd's on to the Revox open real for fun and 3 head cassette and vastly found the music more satisfying and enjoyable through the Marantz and Tannoy setup. To me cd's had something wrong and missing which i did not no any audiophile vocab back then, but it never crossed my mind that the much hyped superior CD and coming of the digital age a mistake back then.

We were looking out for the marking of "DDD" which meant full digital transfers which were meant to be as superior to ADD (which was an analogue to digital transfer) in the coming of the new digital age. DDD was touted as the superior technology, no forums to debate on, or receive options from others. www.com did not even exist then. Many excellent recorded vinyls were thrown in the bin - many which woud go for a few hundreds a pop second hand now!). rag and bone collected didnt even want to take them (to help dispose off for you)

The new D1x dac has made a big advancement from the Esoteric and AKM sound, every area has been improved tremendously that any seemingly touch of hardness that existed from a a properly setup and master clocked Esoteric front end has been banished.

Coming from a previous Esoteric player does not leave me finding a totally unfamiliar different character that i find good, but don't feel at home with. (don't call me a fan boy, i ditched Esoteric as a contender for an upgrade) until i found out of the discrete dac implementation,

Some further background from Japanese interviews with Esoteric designers clearly states that they have moved forward with the concept of their "Velvet sound" of their previous latest generation of products and through development with AKM.

There are rumours that development engineers from the non defunct Wadia brand joined Gibson Group, could this be a reason to venture to discrete technology.

Esoteric has retain all that and taken a big, many advanced steps forward in that direction with a new found smoothness and naturalness to the presentation.

It is unfortunate that i will not likely be add the P1x due to my CD selection dwindling over the past few years and most of my CD's waiting to be digitised as the transport has a significant sonic impact to any top rate dac.

I am confident, yet sad that i will not have the Elink connection from the P1x to the D1x to hear the full glory of CD and SACD playback.

Retiring my K-01x and using it through AES to the D1x is not a meaningful test and will not offer my opinion how it will sound played to the D1x.

I know the D1x is now providing me an excellent first class balance over the entire spectrum streaming from my Aurender W20 (every equipment fully clocked via Mutec 10m outputs, previously Cybershaft op17 clock which is comparable with the Mutec) in a relatively simple straight forward system.

I want to highlight that testing any Esoteric setup without master clocking is incomplete and opinions on the sound, discounted by 50%.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this very detailed feedback. I have a more recent CD player K01xs that I enjoyed very much and which started the transition to a fuller sound. Next week will try to test it as a transport vs the P1X.
Regarding the connection between your W20 and the D1X are you using dual AES ? Also are you clocking both D1X units or the master unit only ?

Thanks !
Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
moby1977 said:
Thanks for this very detailed feedback. I have a more recent CD player K01xs that I enjoyed very much and which started the transition to a fuller sound. Next week will try to test it as a transport vs the P1X.
Regarding the connection between your W20 and the D1X are you using dual AES ? Also are you clocking both D1X units or the master unit only ?

Thanks !
Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I am connecting it via Single AES from a Mutec MC3+ USB to the D1x. I did not have space on my rack and hooked up just 1 dac to play mono.

It still sounded better through the reclcoker as how i was using before, further dual AES will not decode MQA files because the dual AES will transmit half rate through each cable and means the MQA is no longer bit perfect (technically it still is untouched going to the D1x and deems half rate over 2 cables an "altered" signal.

As my interest is streaming i have decided not to go dual AES.

This shows the most important factor in streaming as i have voices is the streaming setup and in the case of a cd, the transport.

i never take into account how mega costly dacs alone sound so glorious and the "Best".

The principle is alway garbage in, garbage out.

Only very coloured dacs will make the sound to some, sound so much superior and fantastic makes me conclude it may be equipment that make the sound so much nicer, like of like harmonic distortions introduced by using tubes and generally, even to me can sound so special and lovely.

I dont dismiss the D1x, but isuggest if you are more a cd person to even try the route for comparing the P1x into the K01xs.

This may prove a bigger improvement over a k01xs feeding a D1x! You may be well surprised and please report for all here your opinions or decisions, unless of course of you are comparing the P1x/D1x - i would say just do it!

Don't compare any combination of the K-01xs against the full P1x /D1x / G1x. (or say a Mutec Ref10)

As such, i do not intend to listen to the P1x to avoid being disappointed, not against the K-01x as a transport, but against streaming in general.

I have left Vinyl to CD's --- then CD's to Vinyl -----now both CD and vinyl to Streaming. I fear to go back!

I Have no rack space for vinyl and CD's without the racks becoming skyscrapers because all my equipment now comprises of 2 boxes for each function!
 
brodricj said:
Give it a try, you might be surprised.
Click to expand...

Hi Brodricj,

I know you are happy with your P1 spinner , i fully believe that the transport and interface is most important, using the K-01x via AES or coax will sound good, but it is nowhere what the ilink will add and not doing justice to the D1x.

I have told myself not to compare, it may only be used when i need to play a cd.

But i also easily rip and just stream the songs.

I am lazy after so much back breaking work lifting all the Esoteric pieces and trying out arrangements on the rack.

I would like to sit back enjoy and not move from the chair if i can help it!

I guess age also catches up now. i can't see the cd titles on the spines in the CD rack without reading glasses! LOL!! So much trouble and it just reminds me of age catching up if i were to play a cd ;)

I am wary if i was to stack the K-01x on the W20 to spin CD's , we are looking at 40+ kgs of both units on the top shelve. Rather frightening!

I have made an observation that equipment today has pushed to the limits of size able to incorporate extra transformers and circuitry.

For example, the D1x incorporates an equal of the S1 preamps output, but doesnt have the extra transformer to supply extra reserves from additional transformers and it is impossible to physically do that short of have at least a 3 box D1x.

The P1 or P1x could be a 1 box transport, but becomes similar to the D-02x, of course better digital circuitry, but the power supply in a 2 box transport would be the biggest differentiating factor, i believe.
 
If you are now deeply involved in streaming you should listen to the SGM Extreme. Another exceptional transport and big box...




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Yes， that was my intention and got the contact.

But i was concern of the lack of any local technical support here is the biggest hurdle.

I am not too savvy in computers should anything go wrong with setting up or afraid of computer gitches now and then which would detract from the overall experience.

I wouldnt think the Wadax streamer would be of worthy comparisions.

But the w20 with choice if power cables together with clock cables, component isolating changes the sound vastly.

It can be so sensitive that getting that wrong and it can sound unsynergistic and crappy.

It streaming, especially Tidal or Quobuz, the network is a big portion of the sound alone


All computer based streamers can be very tricky to optimise and a lack of agent supports deems that a deal breaker for me.

I still do believe that the transport, e.g SGM extreme could be what i need.

Maybe, after a visit to Ben in Hong Kong may change things sometime down the road.
 
I am sure Ben will be very helpful. I listened to the Extreme in his showroom. (and with softwares like TeamViewer some support can be provided remotely.)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Been running in the D1x and the smoothness and texture just keeps comkng in spades in also a most relaxed manner.

It has been hard to find a description instead of the unusal audiolingo which makes no sense in so many reviews normally reported.

Bass for one, feels like coming from the ground on certain tracks and the openess and staging is not only large, but has a sense of clamness in the space. No,i cannot iscribe that my walls disappear, my walls cannot magically disappear and will forever be on all sides of my listening room.

Gone is the flashy colour sports car, in place, a superior racing machine endowed in beatiful earth tone colours

Details, clarity and a freshness to the sonic characteristic has always been one of Esoteric strong points.

Silence between notes are superb, not the type of darkness and chocolately, sticky, warmess type of darkness from maybe some other dacs may sound atypical to a dark soundproof and well padded studio may also give, this is not Esoterics way of portrayal silence or "darkness" between notes.

The silence and quiteness between notes like a summers morning in the sunlit valleys of the countryside hundreds of miles from the next human being together with the smell of the freshness of the morning air filled with dew from the moutain streams.

My k01x previously does not to me, lack any details and i was hearing sounds over time after optimising, in the mix or tracks that i could not ever imagined that the track contained.

I cannot say the d1x is any more detailed, but from running in the units, some notes and and sounds that i cannot recall seems came alive in a very different manner, not in a way like from the k01x (after heavy optimisation) which magically appearers more in an matter like how a magician appears and disappers and started to be able to resemble a in a very intelligible matter sounds of instruments and tunes where i could clearly decipher by ear. Even counting up 10 different types of sounds and tunes within a short 10 second very complex part of a heavily mixed track, often left me dumbfounded that there was so much the artiste/band had taken into the song never could imagine it.

Now with the D1x, these sounds not only more magically come to life in a most natural and realistic matter, never in a sudden burst of hyper detail like i was used to, but these same sounds of instruments and tunes now convey a "musical message" in a way i am left dumbfounded.

There is a new sense of musical artistry and message in every one of these details and sounds.

Vocals not only convey the emotions, but the texture, inflections and how each word sung, spoken and phrased become readily intelligible and such a convincing, that there is a liveness and feel to it that i now understand it is just about hearing details clearly of whatever words, sounds etc. per se, but now there is this hyper micro details in each word, sounds sung etc. is not only revealed in a whole new dimension and light, but also allowed to be conveyed and expressed in a now musical manner which becames just a small musical part of the overall musical message to every track,

It is just like when two persons you ask for a favour and both say "yes", one truthfully answers yes from the heart and the other answer yes, but from the brain or even with a sense of slight bit reluctance, we are able to hear sense these inflections in the tone of voice whether subconsciously and consciously , allowing our brain to sense this.

So a Yes is just not a Yes.

This is comparable to the whole new musical message delivered and allowed to be revealed, that snuck up and hit me whilst listening.

Being that the units were being run in, i did not have any intention during this time to pen any comments nor did i know how to express this in a manner which is useful.

Better bass, better high, more live, more real is not what i will pen down.

Closer to analogue , vinyl, tape etc.

My view is that if you want Vinyl sound, play Vinyl, tape then play tapes etc.

There is no point in comparing.

I never understood how vegetarians craving and having mock meats and saying how good it was.I can only argue till the cows cime home!

Having a top class Kobe steak in Kobe is not the same as the best steak from say any U.S cattle certified to the same standards whatever class certification of Kobe or Waygu cuts you can only get from local cattle from certain parts in Japan.

Another analogy, - nor will a Nissan GTR posting a same 0-60mph timing ever feel the same driven compared to a Lambo or Ferrari given that all reach the same timings.
 
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