Esoteric migrating off of AKM Dac chips for flagship D1X?

The K-01x has only 2 digital outputs 1 RCA and XLR.

As a transport, the only high rez would be spinning SACD's to an external dac.

Esoterics ESL and a few other brands have this support to decode SACD in a separate dac, but not through a RCA or XLR output.

There is a restriction of SACD being decoded by quite a number of dacs though which totally emit SACD playback and use drives that cannot read SACDs.

Spot on the FPGAs, they are powerful enough to support any implementation for time being until a new era in higher bandwidth formats emerges.

With streaming gaining more ground today, the industry will look conversely in adopting any higher bandwidths formats.

SACDs have been slowly regang popularity today and might be about the highest resolution on physical data.
 
justubes said:
Esoterics ESL and a few other brands have this support to decode SACD in a separate dac, but not through a RCA or XLR output..
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Esoteric N-01 can decode SACD from an Esoteric transport connected via XLR. You just need to set the XLR output of the transport to ESLINK1 via MENU functions. Trust me on that, it works.
 
More single box player owners would want to upgrade the dac first and keep the Player as a transport.

Wuth streaming, the role of the transport diminishes , except for owner who have a vast cd collection.

Otherwise acquiring physical cd's is getting less and less.

Instead of going online to purchase cd's , i just get online to stream the music. No waiting for the cd to arrive or get lost in the mail.

So it means the P1 can play to a new range release from the N-01.

It would be rare to have a P1 owner that doesnt have the D1 and use the p1 to spin disc into a K1 or K-01xs.

Well, it makes some sense if the N-01 was acquired to play network audio, in that, if one the P1 was handy, he could the n spin SACD's also from the P1 to the N-01.
 
The N-01 sounds fantastic whether source is streaming or P1 (P1 sounds better than streaming). My plan is to replace the N-01 with D1X + N-03T, and probably not upgrade P1 to P1X. I think it's getting tough to justify the price of P1X, especially for P1 owner.
 
If you have lots of cd's, presumably so since you have a p1.

I will be inclined to hold on to the N01 for streaming unitil a Grandioso streamer comes out with Eslink.

If you can demo to P1 and D1 via Eslink and traditional coax or Aes with just redbook.

I believe you may find the Eslink way superior, that streaming will be clearly outclassed by cd's.

In that situation, you can then make a better decision wheretherean investment in a P1x will be all you want and holdback the on acquiring N03T.

Maybe a N1t is forthcoming.

Whatever it is, the N03T's interface may not be doing the D1x ESlink interface any justice.

I would do that combo using usb for sure.

Eslink is capable of whatever Dsd needs.
 
The K01x does not have any digital outputs other than the normal rca and xlr.

Even ESL Analogue (ESL-A) , is on the Analogue outputs for the newer players.

So connecting either units as a transport to any dac, will be limited to 96k for rca and 192k for xlr. So even xlr maxing out at 192k bandwidth cannot carry dsd or sacd content which is 2.822mhz

No other digital outputs, not even in the k1 player.

Eslink Analoge is claimed as a better transmission via xlr to their preamp.

Eslink 4 and 5 is a digital interface and has no relation to ESL-A.

Very different altogether.

The ESL 4 and now 5 is similare ti IS2 and hmdi type transmissions where various signals including clocking signals are transmitted via seperate lines on the hdmi link and does doen embed these digital signal together in with the main music signal, so claimingly superior.

I have just relooked at the product data.

Your N01 does not have a single digital output, it will become redundant once you add your D1x to the system.

That is to say, even if you acquired the N03T, any rca or xlr will limit you to redbook PCM quality.

You can only get DSD up to 2.8mhz throght to the D1x via usb.

The N03T cannot even transmit DSD 5.6mhz.

The D1x supports 64bit /768khz for pcm and for DSD 22.5mhz for Eslink 5.

Single Eslink1 and 2 supports up to DSD2.8.

Dual Aes will support up to 384k.

In short without ESLink 2, no transport will pass Sacd information. Not even with Dual AES(Bummer!) I just leant another downside.

So read the specs on the N03T, it is already become dinosaur in the copany with a D1x capabilities. Do yourself a favour and wait for a N1-T.

My earlier posts states that if Esoteric continues as such, i strongly believe that they will end in fanancial diaster if they do not clean up their act and stop releasing what is to me half-baked products and start in a new and correct direction with the D1x.

I dont wish for that to happen, else i wouldnt have bought the D1x. I trust they will clean up their act going forward, releasing important FPGA updates and slowing bringing the rest of the new range up to today's demandig digital world.

If i didnt have a pure streamer that i liked already, i would have turned to MSB without any hesistance.
 
Mike said:
Just read two reviews on the EMM DA2. Soundstage and CA. CA puts it above the Berkeley and below the dCS Rossini. Both describe it with having lots of detail and resolute highs, but lacking the weight of even the dCS (which I don’t consider “weighty”).

Hi Mike, I don't think CA puts the dCS Rossini above the EMM Labs DA2. He said: "The DA2 didn't seem to make errors of commission or omission, and fell directly in the middle of the Berkeley and dCS. ... I hate to call the DA2 middle of the road because that implies ordinary or fair-to-middling, when in fact this DAC is extraordinary. "
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That's not right. The P1 can pass SACD via XLR digital out. I'm 100% sure of that, it says so in the manual and I have it working like that.
The Esoteric K1/01Xs/03Xs SACD player analog XLR outputs can be configured as ESL-A and connected to D1X for SACD playback. It says so in the manual.

I would operate my N-01 as a standalone unit, and the P1 would be connected to D1X via ESLINK-4. If I were to sell the N-01 I would buy N-03T and use that until Esoteric do a Grandioso network transport. At some point I'd like to get a Cybershaft clock with OP spec equivalent to G1 or better. I don't imagine Esoteric will announce any new products until the next Tokyo show.

Another thing I noticed is P1X only has the one clock input, no clock output, and I suspect it is 10Mhz only. D1X clock input is also a 10Mhz.
 
Yuen Andy said:
Mike said:
Just read two reviews on the EMM DA2. Soundstage and CA. CA puts it above the Berkeley and below the dCS Rossini. Both describe it with having lots of detail and resolute highs, but lacking the weight of even the dCS (which I don’t consider “weighty”).

Hi Mike, I don't think CA puts the dCS Rossini above the EMM Labs DA2. He said: "The DA2 didn't seem to make errors of commission or omission, and fell directly in the middle of the Berkeley and dCS. ... I hate to call the DA2 middle of the road because that implies ordinary or fair-to-middling, when in fact this DAC is extraordinary. "
Click to expand...

If he puts it between the Berkeley Ref2 and Rossini, I get a clearer picture. I’ve owned the Berk REF2 and Rossini (on trade). Listened to both extensively. If it sits below the Rossini, I don’t think it would be for me, but I would still love to hear it. I find certain reviewers tend to like digital sounds and speakers with bite (didn’t Chris love those TAD’s Joe and I couldn’t stand?). The reference for some reviewers is just more digital. Varying shades of grey if you will.

I much prefer the analog sounds of MSB, Chord DAVE with Blu2 (or M-Scaler) and Luxman D-08u. The T+A PDP3000HV and Lumin X1 can also be in the mix as both are just superb. There’s obviously a few more out there too. Some say Aqua is right there too. The old R2R Lampi sounds too.

I use my Studer 810/Doshi as my reference for what a great source sounds like, not my CD player. That’s the amazing thing about the Select II. When I had it home, I kept saying “it doesn’t sound like any other DAC. In fact, to call it a DAC would be insulting.” You can look back on this site for those comments from over a year ago. Even when I compared the exact same recordings to my Turntable, it didn’t sound like that either. It wasn’t until I compared the same recordings to my Studer 810/Doshi v3 that I said “ah ha! That’s what it sounds like.”

I can’t tell you the number of people that have come into the store to hear amps, speakers, various cables, etc., only to comment “that MSB is the best DAC I’ve ever heard.”

I’m curious to hear the new Berk REF3, but the lack of Ethernet or Fiber Optic input might be a drawback for some. It seems a lot of the world class DAC’s are headed in that direction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
I have extracted the information from the product technical specifications of the various outputs from their website.

But am certain ESL-A is for the mentioned players cannot be connected to the D1x via the 2 xlr output on the leaft and right side..

If you note the ESL-A is on the outermost right and left sides. It is confirmed that the these outputs are after dac conversion and cannot be connected to the D1 or D1x as dual AES.

How are you passing sacd out to the dac?

Did they had a way to pass sacd info out through xlr via ESL-A bypassing the dac output of the players.

Maybe best to get confirmation from your dealer, unreal as it sounds.

But rca and xlr ihas bandwidth limitations which does not allow for higher resolution apart from pcm.
 
brodricj said:
Another thing I noticed is P1X only has the one clock input, no clock output, and I suspect it is 10Mhz only. D1X clock input is also a 10Mhz.
Click to expand...


Yes, specifically, now they are 50 ohm only and done away with the clock output. You will need, including your streamer 4 x 10m outputs eventually.

I has sold my Cybershaft due to lack of outputs, the max is 3 output in a new version Kenji offers, but is insufficient.


I just translated and read the japanese manual.

A little setback was that i was planning to use dual Aes to play slightly higher sampling rates aas well as mqa.

Now looks that mqa must be used with any input except the dual connections, i guess it was pointless anyway to stream up to 384k resolution files, not much point for that.

Does anyone have experience whetherthe hdmi cable connecting both units make a difference?
 
The new Esoteric flagship products seem to heading in the right direction. At their price point, they have some unique prortieray technology to make it their own.

Getting off the AKM chips is a good move as their competitors at those prices are either using custom silicon or custom R2R.

Most likely, since an FPGA chipset is simple hardware wise but the software and programming filters is what makes the DAC. Eg. Watts Filter on the Chord or Ted Smith’s PS DSD; Meitner’s EMM etc...

You’d expect Estoeric to trickle down the FPGA tech to the rest of their product line in the years to come ; to remain competitive.

Esoteric is on board with MQA and looks like MQA CD (Japanese market) has a few releases.

My question is it seems all Esoteric products use Op-Amps in their output stage. Including these new flagships.

However, many high end Digital products use a pure Class A output stage with no OP-amps. No matter how good an op amp is ; thats still something in the signal path.

Many believe that a Pure Class A output stage contributes to that clean unbroken or “analog” like sound on digital that many enjoy.

Examples are Luxman , Lumin X1 and I’m sure many others.
 
justubes said:
...How are you passing sacd out to the dac?
Click to expand...

As I mentioned, P1 passes SACD via XLR to N-01. I suspect it will also work with D1X, and the other Esoteric players.

If you find that difficult to believe, have a look at this photo.

DSC01699.JPG
 
justubes said:
..You will need, including your streamer 4 x 10m outputs eventually.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is right. If you connect the D1X to an external clock, any sources connected by ESLINK will also be syncronized to that clock signal.

So if you have an Esoteric transport connected to D1X ESLINK-1, a Grandioso network streamer connected to ESLINK-2, and both D1X connected together via L-R link, then you only need a 10M clock with single output and one 50 ohm clock cable to clock the whole system.
 
Mike said:
If he puts it between the Berkeley Ref2 and Rossini, I get a clearer picture. I’ve owned the Berk REF2 and Rossini (on trade). Listened to both extensively. If it sits below the Rossini, I don’t think it would be for me, but I would still love to hear it. I find certain reviewers tend to like digital sounds and speakers with bite (didn’t Chris love those TAD’s Joe and I couldn’t stand?). The reference for some reviewers is just more digital. Varying shades of grey if you will.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, Chris said that the DA2 didn't seem to make errors of commission or omission and I agree with him. The DA2 has a weighty sound and it certainly doesn't sound digital but rather sounded like the real thing. Tom Lyle (World Premiere Review September 2018. Enjoy the Music.com: Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. $40,000 USD) observes: "And in a word, that is my impression of the Analogue Artisan A1 Series Turntable with Remote Control VTA/SRA Mongoose Tonearm and Pod. Music. Never have I heard such source-less sounding analog music coming from my speakers. In my review of the EMM Labs DA2 digital-to-analog converter, I described its admirable sonic qualities as being neither digital nor analog sounding, and I believe the Analogue Artisan A1 setup behaved in a similar fashion, because on certain recordings I couldn't tell whether I was listening to analog or digital, I was simply listening to music."
 
Thanks, thanks great as isnt mention of playing sacd connection, just specs on the output.

Hope mine can work, that will be great.

Does this work for both coax and xlr to the N-01s digital input?
 
SCAudiophile said:
"(Esoteric's whole business model is based on overemphasis of the lower regions) "

I will with respect disagree in earnest with this. Their entire business model is based upon so much more and different things than over-emphasized bass
and that stated, their bass is not over-emphasized at all, IMHO. It's fast, articulate and accurate. I've not had one single Esoteric player that bloats or
over-emphasized the bass. I've owned;

DV-50S
P-0s Transport
UX-1
UX-1 Limited
P-03 Universal /D-03
P-02 / D-02

starting in late 2005 and continuing to this day. In almost 14 years haven't heard over-emphasized/bloated bass out of any Esoteric box.

And I've spent significant listening time (days and weeks not minutes) with;

P-01 / D-01
P1/D1
K1
K-01X
X-01
UX3

What Esoteric equipment have you owned and/or spent significant time with?

Perhaps we agree to disagree :D, however the bass is not over-emphasized/exaggerated at all. That may have been cable choice for
interconnects, digital cables, etc...creeping in to whatever you were hearing.

BTW...your system signature has a great line-up and must sound great! I'll say for the record that if I did not have Esoteric at this point, having heard several
EMM units (and liking them alot) I'd probably have EMM or MSB at this point...

Bar81 EMM Labs TX2|DA2 | Ayre KX-R Twenty | D'Agostino Momentum M400 | Focal Maestro Utopia III | MIT Oracle MA | VH Audio Airsine | Shunyata King Cobra CX | Shunyata Denali 6000/T | Harmonic Resolution Systems | CAD Ground
Click to expand...

I should have just not said anything but the Jonathan Valin-esq poster with a new best unit every few weeks was really annoying me. Not my best moment and I shouldn't have dragged the Esoteric brand into it.

In any case, I finally stopped looking with the EMM Labs TX2/DA2 (V2 firmware). Once those M400s arrived I knew the system components were all set. I'm just playing around now with tweaks. Was really disappointed with the Stillpoints Ultra 5s I tried on my speakers earlier this year. But I'm pretty blown away at the effect of the next tweak I tried - signal grounding - I really thought it would be a waste of money. Next is a Shunyata Triton v3 and then down the road I'll probably try mains earth grounding.

Btw, I saw on another thread that you're about to upgrade to the P1/D1 combo and not the new P1x/D1x. Is it just a price consideration or is the P1/D1 so good it's getting you off the merry go round?
 
gadawg said:
Very interesting thread as I posted the review of the K-01xs vs DA2 on AA. I had lived with the DA2 for about 6-8 months and the thing it did the best was the holographic 3D sound stage without any doubt. I loved it. It also never sounded bright or hyped up in my system which consists of a Mark Levinson No52 Ref pre, No 536 Mono's, Wilson Sasha 2's, Aurender N100h, dac of choice, and all MIT Oracle IC and SC. Using all Transparent Ref and XL power cables w. Ref Isolator. To be fair ... when I started the comparison I was still using fairly cheap power cords and at that point the DA2 was better in almost every way and I had just about written the Esoteric off. Then, I decided to try better power cords and noticed that the entire system sounded much better. One night after getting the new power cords I decided to give the Esoteric another listen as I now had over 1000 hours on it. So with better power cords and equal HRS isolation platforms the k-01xs in my system did sound a bit better than the DA2. It achieved the same level of 3D sound stage as the DA2 with all of the detail but had more weight throughout the mids and lows with greater dynamic slam and impact which for me ... I like. By comparison the DA2 was now sounding a tad bit thin vs the Esoteric. I think that the Esoteric seemed to be more sensitive to power and vibration issues than the DA2 but once those were solved I really liked how it performed. To be very clear ... neither of these units ran all over the other ... the differences are small but noticeable and if I had never heard one or the other I could be happy with either. That said ... now that I've chosen the Esoteric I am going up to the game a little with the D-02X and if that sticks(who knows with me :-) ) then I'll swap out the K-01XS for the P-02X and call it a day. I had also compared the DA2 to the Vivaldi and I preferred the DA2 over the Vivaldi alone but when the upsampler was added I preferred the sound of the Vivaldi but just can't spend that kind of money right now. I liked the DA2 over the Rossini because to me the Rossini just didn't produce the same holographic sound stage as the DA2. I'm sure the MSB is incredible as well I just like the sound signature of the current crop of products from Esoteric. Totally personal preference here so I'm not saying any of these are "better" just different and I'm good with listening to what I like even if someone else thinks its not as good as something else! Moral of the story is to listen to these DACS in your system and decide what you like and make sure the test is truly apples to apples. Cheers everyone!

George
Click to expand...

Hi George, I would certainly agree with most of your comments above. I think it all boils down to system synergy and personal taste!
 
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