DSD vs PCM as compared to what?

mep said:
Why should your comment "create a fire storm?" It makes perfect sense to me. The only question I have is who owns a DAC optimized for PCM and another DAC optimized for DSD and can give us their unbiased preference (is that an oxymoron?)
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Whom ever is going to give a truly meaningful opinion about the formats.

mep said:
, and if something is "phenomenal at it's price," is it really phenomenal? Isn't that sort of like telling two-ton Tessie that for a fat girl she doesn't sweat much?
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Exactly, wouldn't that be somewhat rare.
 
That being said, I doubt things would change. I've yet to hear a PCM only DAC that can compete with the best of the best PCM/DSD DAC's. But I have not heard the new Berkley.

If someone has a PCM only and a DSD only DAC AND R2R and same sources of each, they can refute my comparison.

Until then....


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Mike said:
That being said, I doubt things would change. I've yet to hear a PCM only DAC that can compete with the best of the best PCM/DSD DAC's. But I have not heard the new Berkley.

If someone has a PCM only and a DSD only DAC AND R2R and same sources of each, they can refute my comparison.

Until then....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You're 2/3rds of the way there! :)
 
Focussing on DAC's that can play only one format was not my point. Sorry if I was vague.

Just about every respectable DAC these days plays both, but that doesn't mean they play both formats at their best. (Conversions make up the difference.) Some are optimized for PCM first and DSD second, some are DSD first and PCM second, and some have two DAC's in one.
 
Mike, just saying I would love to have your ears compare the MSB and Lampizator to tapes. IMO that would go a long way to putting the argument to bed. I still have my view (which is that at this level the formats are a push and I lean toward availability of titles), but I haven't heard the Lampizator. We gotta get you a couple of loaners.
 
PCM isn't going to sound like tape. It's going to sound like PCM. If you love the sound of digital and hate analog, I'm sure PCM is the preferred format for those people (even if much of their PCM was sourced from analog). If you love the sound of analog recordings, the closest digital format to approaching the sound of analog is DSD that I'm aware of.
 
mep said:
PCM isn't going to sound like tape. It's going to sound like PCM. If you love the sound of digital and hate analog, I'm sure PCM is the preferred format for those people (even if much of their PCM was sourced from analog). If you love the sound of analog recordings, the closest digital format to approaching the sound of analog is DSD that I'm aware of.
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Well thats thoughtful, glad you cleared this up for the ages.
 
mep said:
PCM isn't going to sound like tape. It's going to sound like PCM. If you love the sound of digital and hate analog, I'm sure PCM is the preferred format for those people (even if much of their PCM was sourced from analog). If you love the sound of analog recordings, the closest digital format to approaching the sound of analog is DSD that I'm aware of.
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I disagree with that statement. PCM can sound very analog if it's executed properly and with very good equipment. mep, you need to listen to my system to hear what I'm talking about.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Mike, just saying I would love to have your ears compare the MSB and Lampizator to tapes. IMO that would go a long way to putting the argument to bed. I still have my view (which is that at this level the formats are a push and I lean toward availability of titles), but I haven't heard the Lampizator. We gotta get you a couple of loaners.
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The answer is not necessarily comparing them but making A/D copies of the tape in both digital formats and then comparing them. I'm doing that with 4XDSD. So has David Robinson at PFO and people like Bruce Brown of Puget Sound Studios and Dave Wilson. It's no accident that Dave chose to remaster his tapes and play them back at shows using DSD. I could possibly also make 24/192 copies too like did for Jeff Joseph too.
 
Audioseduction said:
I disagree with that statement. PCM can sound very analog if it's setup properly and with very good equipment. mep, you need to listen to my system to hear what I'm talking about.
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The question is not whether PCM sounds analog like. The question is does it sound like the tape?
 
Myles B. Astor said:
The question is not whether PCM sounds analog like. The question is does it sound like the tape?
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I was about to post something like this, but more along the lines of which sounds more like live music? None of our current storage mechanisms/media manage this without some very noticeable problems. I do think ​that better DSD or PCM is more likely to manage this than better analog, though.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
The answer is not necessarily comparing them but making A/D copies of the tape in both digital formats and then comparing them. I'm doing that with 4XDSD. So has David Robinson at PFO and people like Bruce Brown of Puget Sound Studios and Dave Wilson. It's no accident that Dave chose to remaster his tapes and play them back at shows using DSD. I could possibly also make 24/192 copies too like did for Jeff Joseph too.
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Myles, have you done a direct comparison of A/D copies of tape in both formats and compared them directly using DAC's optimized around playback of the respective format? Also, are you aware of the DAC's used by David, Bruce or Dave in their work. I just find it hard to believe that playback of PCM converted directly from tape on a full MSB Diamond (with Galaxy Clock) or a Trintiy DAC will not sound on par with 4XDSD.

Their is no question more poor PCM execution is spread throughout the market place than poor DSD because so much work has been done in PCM at low price points and this has reduced the quality many expect from PCM. The bad image suffered by PCM from the dark years of digital still has scared many in the business.

I am very familiar with Bruce and Dave's famous decisions to use DSD. I personally feel with the best DAC's both formats are marginally different but one is not better than the other; but I have not done this type of comparison personally and would love to be enlightened.
 
mep said:
You're welcome and I did. What's that? Oh yes, you're welcome too ages.
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mep,

I hate to get off topic but I haven't had a lot of exposure to someone omniscient. It's pretty cool. Do you answer stock market questions? How about an S&P level in 2018 or something simple like a QE4 start date?
 
FlexibleAudio said:
mep,

I hate to get off topic but I haven't had a lot of exposure to someone omniscient. It's pretty cool. Do you answer stock market questions? How about an S&P level in 2018 or something simple like a QE4 start date?
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Jan 2013
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Myles, have you done a direct comparison of A/D copies of tape in both formats and compared them directly using DAC's optimized around playback of the respective format? Also, are you aware of the DAC's used by David, Bruce or Dave in their work. I just find it hard to believe that playback of PCM converted directly from tape on a full MSB Diamond (with Galaxy Clock) or a Trintiy DAC will not sound on par with 4XDSD.

Their is no question more poor PCM execution is spread throughout the market place than poor DSD because so much work has been done in PCM at low price points and this has reduced the quality many expect from PCM. The bad image suffered by PCM from the dark years of digital still has scared many in the business.

I am very familiar with Bruce and Dave's famous decisions to use DSD. I personally feel with the best DAC's both formats are marginally different but one is not better than the other; but I have not done this type of comparison personally and would love to be enlightened.
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Working on it.
 
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