DSD vs PCM as compared to what?

[Myles B. Astor]

Mike, really looking forward to your test results. Not sure if you have double or quad DSD files around, but that would definitely be fun to compare to! I think your S1 can play at least double DSD?

The iFi in my system now can do 4x DSD and will be able to do 8x DSD shortly. If you want to hear double, check out Opus 3 DSD. Really a huge gulf between it and the best of RBCD. Conversely if you don't want to hear the issues with RBCD, don't. Interestingly RBCD ripped to 4xDSD is immensely better too. From what I understand, the effect has to do with reduced error correction due to greater 0 and 1s.

 

[Mike]

Mike, really looking forward to your test results. Not sure if you have double or quad DSD files around, but that would definitely be fun to compare to! I think your S1 can play at least double DSD?

Yes, it can. But the challenge is finding the tape to compare it to. This was just one that I had in every format except vinyl (gasp!).

 

[Steve]

Exactly. The mind boggles what Studer might be producing today with better parts, drive technology, heads, etc.

Did somebody say Studer.... My Opus 3 sampler set arrived this week. I must have a play.

 

[Mike]

The iFi in my system now can do 4x DSD and will be able to do 8x DSD shortly. If you want to hear double, check out Opus 3 DSD. Really a huge gulf between it and the best of RBCD. Conversely if you don't want to hear the issues with RBCD, don't. Interestingly RBCD ripped to 4xDSD is immensely better too. From what I understand, the effect has to do with reduced error correction due to greater 0 and 1s.

Agreed. I have that recording in double DSD as well. Was the first one I bought.

Also, some of the new double DSD recordings from Blue Coast Records are superb. Cookie has sent me several to review and I need to post my thoughts.

 

[Mike]

BTW did the Dehavilland have a grounding lug for the tape heads?

Yes, and that was the first thing I tried. I worked with Kara yesterday problem solving. No luck.

I will say this much, listening to tape is bloody addictive.

I can only imagine the level it goes to with a direct feed from the tape head to a tape preamp like yours or the Doshi.

 

[Mike]

Sorry for the bad iPad photo....but I will take some more later.




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[mep]

That's a nice looking deck Mike.

 

[Mike]

Thanks Mark. Jeff did a fabulous job.


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[Steve]

That's a nice looking deck Mike.

Yes, lovely J-Corder beast. Nicely finished Technics. Like his knobs too.

 

[astrotoy]

Mike, thanks for sharing your thoughts and your new R2R. I'm sure you are going to get a lot of enjoyment from the equipment.

One point, remember that the Opus 3 Samplers are not direct dubs from the master tapes. They had to create a sub master with all the excerpts from the different albums. I have the first three sampler albums and they are both a good cross section of the Opus 3 tape catalogue and at a very reasonable price. But the jewels are the direct dubs. I bought 10 of them (with a little discount from Kevin) and they are spectacularly good. They are not cheap, much like the price of the Jacintha Here's to Ben tapes. But they also contain a full album of music - 45 to 60 minutes worth, and come in 2 tapes. So its like $250 per tape. To preserve the original masters, they are limiting the number of copies to 50 - so, like 'Here's to Ben' there won't be any more direct dubs. BTW, I tried to get 'Here's to Ben' and couldn't. :-( Ended up with Jacintha's 'Autumn Leaves' - spectacular.

I think I was one of the earlier people to get a reworked machine with new electronics (a reworked Technics 1506 that Bottlehead provided with their Prepro - and a wireless remote!) about 5 years ago. It wasn't cheap then, but not like the current stuff. The newer electronics may be better, but I have been quite happy with the Bottlehead prepro, especially using its balanced outputs.

I got the machine specifically to play the then new Tape Project tapes. Since then we have a steady (or not so steady) stream of additional sources - Opus 3, Ed Pong's UltraAnalogue, Bob Attiyeh's Yarlung, Jonathan Horwich's IPI, Volker Lange 's Lutz Precision and others.

I would urge those of you with R2R tape players with NAB and CCIR EQ to try these out. I just counted and I have 85 of these albums, many of them with 2 reels. They are not cheap, but will give you a sense of reality and musicality that I don't find from any other source. It will also support a noble cause.

Unfortunately, almost no one is recording in R2R. Even people like Keith Johnson no longer do R2R backups of their digital recordings. As my Decca engineer friends told me, editing with a razor blade is a PITA. John Dunkerley says he can still hear every edit he did on this many analogue recordings.

Larry

 

[wisnon]

The iFi in my system now can do 4x DSD and will be able to do 8x DSD shortly. If you want to hear double, check out Opus 3 DSD. Really a huge gulf between it and the best of RBCD. Conversely if you don't want to hear the issues with RBCD, don't. Interestingly RBCD ripped to 4xDSD is immensely better too. From what I understand, the effect has to do with reduced error correction due to greater 0 and 1s.

Myles, do you use PC to get 4xdsds to play with the iFi? I am a Mac guy at the moment and only get DSD128. On the Big7 Lampi, I am yet to hook up my MM and try it out, as I am busy getting a baseline via tube rolling. Also, I am getting our buddy AL to roadmap me to an AO Server 2012. What I do know is that DSD128 on a Big7 is a dream and I will soon get there.

I had a brief expereince with 1/2 inch tape at the Warsaw show by a German company selling Tape reissues (I have the card somewhere). He said Tape is the new Vinyl. LoL It sounded very clean and pleasing via the Senn H-Phones.

 

[wisnon]

Did somebody say Studer.... My Opus 3 sampler set arrived this week. I must have a play.

Isnt there a 4 out there now?

Stereoplay has some samplers in DSD2x too…sweet!

 

[Myles B. Astor]

H

myles, do you use pc to get 4xdsds to play with the ifi? I am a mac guy at the moment and only get dsd128. On the big7 lampi, i am yet to hook up my mm and try it out, as i am busy getting a baseline via tube rolling. Also, i am getting out buddy al to roadmap me to an ao server 2012. What i do know is that dsd128 on a big7 is a dream and i will soon get there.

I had a brief expereince with 1/2 inch tape at the warsaw show by a german company selling tape reissues (i have the card somewhere). He said tape is the new vinyl. Lol it sounded very clean and pleasing via the senn h-phones.

I'm using the new Scaena Mainframe music server right now. Sunny, who's an IT guy has done a good job.

 

[rbbert]

...In the end, opinions are great but I think the first requirement is for people to listen to all the different available formats eg. As Mark inferred those who denigrate analog based on a $300 '80s turntable.

You know the second part of that statement is a ridiculously inappropriate generalization, as well as inappropriate use of inferred vs. implied.

As for the first, yes that's nice, but if you want to do that in your own system you have to spend a considerable amount of money optimizing several different sources, money which IMHO would bring more audible improvement if spent on speakers and amps.

Interestingly, my wife is pushing me to get at least one of my Technics repaired and upgraded. Not likely to happen though until/unless there is enough affordable music I want to hear that way, though...:dry:

 

[Myles B. Astor]

You know the second part of that statement is a ridiculously inappropriate generalization, as well as inappropriate use of inferred vs. implied.

Robert, you know very perfectly well many examples of what I'm talking about. Are you denying that exists?

As for the first, yes that's nice, but if you want to do that in your own system you have to spend a considerable amount of money optimizing several different sources, money which IMHO would bring more audible improvement if spent on speakers and amps.

Interestingly, my wife is pushing me to get at least one of my Technics repaired and upgraded. Not likely to happen though until/unless there is enough affordable music I want to hear that way, though...:dry:

I think that it's a basic requirement to have listened to something, preferably current, to have a valid opinion.

Everyone has their own views about what to prioritize in their system. As far as I'm concerned, improvements to the source brings returns many times over. After all, how do you really know what you're listening to and what's at fault in the system? Does that amplifier really have those issues or is it simply revealing problems with the front-end. Same goes for speakers.

 

[mep]

Robert, you know very perfectly well many examples of what I'm talking about. Are you denying that exists?



I think that it's a basic requirement to have listened to something, preferably current, to have a valid opinion.

Everyone has their own views about what to prioritize in their system. As far as I'm concerned, improvements to the source brings returns many times over. After all, how do you really know what you're listening to and what's at fault in the system? Does that amplifier really have those issues or is it simply revealing problems with the front-end. Same goes for speakers.

Myles-I think the chances of Rob becoming an analog convert are slim to none. Once someone has made their mind up on what they want as their source and they are convinced of the superiority of their choice (measurements or otherwise), it's damn hard to walk back from that. Now we have to define what does "affordable" analog music mean in terms of dollars and what does it mean with regards to "music I want to hear that way."

 

[rbbert]

On the contrary, I would love to be able to listen to all my music collection well mastered on analog tape, 15 ips 2-track 1/4", but that's not going to happen, unfortunately.

As far as source goes, within reasonable comparisons I find mastering makes a much bigger difference than source format for the audio qualities I find most important. And I spend several hours every few months listening to near-SOTA LP playback (Basis 'table, Transfiguration cartridge, various pre-amps), and unfortunately less often to high-quality R2R. I'm quite familiar with the salient audio qualities of the different formats, and the subtleties may matter less to me than to others.

If I'm going to have a single source system, it has to be digital for the availability of music I like. As I said, if that could happen on open reel I'd make that switch.

 

[Ritmo]

Sorry for the bad iPad photo....but I will take some more later.




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Very nice Mike!

 

[Mike]

Thanks Mike. Its really a lot of fun. Talk about fatigue free listening....


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[tunes]

Glad to hear the deck has arrived and you 're into it. Hope that kara's pre gets sorted and back to you real soon. Not sure about the technics internal pre but my taudio is really an amazing transport but the external pres now available take it to another level. It'll be worth the wait.