DSD versus PCM - Is DSD really better or is it a 'myth'

Mike Lavigne said:
thanks Paul.

I could not agree with you more about the remarkable staying power of the MPS-5. I had the very, very first MPS-5 in customer hands back in June 2006. and here 9 years later on it's 25th software release it's still relevant and competitive at the top of the dsd world, and still respectable PCM performance. it was a good value in 2006 and still is.
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Its nice, for PCM. Spent a weekend with Audiocrack in Holland with a new out of box SE GG Dac playing DSD from a basic MB Pro and his Trinity Dac playing PCM from the Trinity server. Like Adam, he has a GG for DSD and Trinity for PCM.

As I said, different flavours of delicious ice cream.

I have heard the PBD on 2 occasions and its very good, but I like the Lampi better for DSD and PCM….YMMV.
 
wisnon said:
Its nice, for PCM. Spent a weekend with Audiocrack in Holland with a new out of box SE GG Dac playing DSD from a basic MB Pro and his Trinity Dac playing PCM from the Trinity server. Like Adam, he has a GG for DSD and Trinity for PCM.

As I said, different flavours of delicious ice cream.

I have heard the PBD on 2 occasions and its very good, but I like the Lampi better for DSD and PCM….YMMV.
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Norman, I assume you saw I acquired the Trinity dac for my PCM?

http://audioshark.org/general-audio...really-better-myth-8202-page3.html#post141280

so now my question is whether the step up to the Lampy for dsd only would be worth it over my PD?
 
Audioseduction said:
Guys, why beat a dead horse? PCM v DSD is getting old. Just get over it. It all sounds good! Life's too short to worry about it. :happy:
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This is particularly true since "when you hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question." This argument has been definitively settled. Why do people bother?
 
Hi Mike,

Adam and Audiocrack would agree with that conclusion and so would I. I already prefer the Big7 to the PBD, and I expect a broken in GG is another notch or 2 up the ladder.
The chipless DSD is the best DSD I have heard so far.

BTW, what transport/server do you use for the Trinity?
 
wisnon said:
Hi Mike,

Adam and Audiocrack would agree with that conclusion and so would I. I already prefer the Big7 to the PBD, and I expect a broken in GG is another notch or 2 up the ladder.
The chipless DSD is the best DSD I have heard so far.
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I've observed you and Paul go round and round (and round again) about what approach to dsd playback is correct. so I will simply not go there.:snicker:

at some point soon i'll get to sit down and listen to the Lampy and come to my own conclusion.
 
wisnon said:
Hi Mike,

BTW, what transport/server do you use for the Trinity?
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for now i'm using my old server and NAS. I did move the CPU downstairs so I can eliminate the USB over Ethernet extender and use the Totaldac USB cable and a Regen. moving the CPU downstairs and the new USB cable were clear definite steps up in performance.

i'm building a CAPS v4 Pipeline 'hot rodded' server with a stand alone LPS; still waiting for one part to arrive to get that done.

since this server will be for both my PCM Trinity and the dsd Playbacks Design I need to use a generic server. the Trinity PC & Drive would only be for the Trinity. and I have my son the Network Engineer to assist.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
I've observed you and Paul go round and round (and round again) about what approach to dsd playback is correct. so I will simply not go there.:snicker:

at some point soon i'll get to sit down and listen to the Lampy and come to my own conclusion.
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Very good plan Mike. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
for now i'm using my old server and NAS. I did move the CPU downstairs so I can eliminate the USB over Ethernet extender and use the Totaldac USB cable and a Regen. moving the CPU downstairs and the new USB cable were clear definite steps up in performance.

i'm building a CAPS v4 Pipeline 'hot rodded' server with a stand alone LPS; still waiting for one part to arrive to get that done.

since this server will be for both my PCM Trinity and the dsd Playbacks Design I need to use a generic server. the Trinity PC & Drive would only be for the Trinity. and I have my son the Network Engineer to assist.
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Mike, PM Fred and see if he can lend you a demo. Maybe after the CAF?
 
Mike Lavigne said:
for now i'm using my old server and NAS. I did move the CPU downstairs so I can eliminate the USB over Ethernet extender and use the Totaldac USB cable and a Regen. moving the CPU downstairs and the new USB cable were clear definite steps up in performance.

i'm building a CAPS v4 Pipeline 'hot rodded' server with a stand alone LPS; still waiting for one part to arrive to get that done.

since this server will be for both my PCM Trinity and the dsd Playbacks Design I need to use a generic server. the Trinity PC & Drive would only be for the Trinity. and I have my son the Network Engineer to assist.
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That is the only way…Gotta try for yourself.

I had no go around with Paul about DSD playback, more about DSD delivery method, USB, Regen, Tubes, that sorta thing. If he is happy with what he has then more power to him.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
there is a reviewer a few hundred miles away with a GG that is still breaking in which I may travel to hear once it's broken in. should be within a few weeks.
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Fine and dandy. As you are in Seattle, also ask Bruce Brown what he thinks of Lampi DSD, though he only knows the Level 4.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
there is a reviewer a few hundred miles away with a GG that is still breaking in which I may travel to hear once it's broken in. should be within a few weeks.
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I gave a lot of consideration to snaring an MPD-5 to use as my baseline for DSD and then getting something like the Berk Ref as my PCM baseline. I decided, for better or worse, to go with MSB as a baseline for both. In any case, I hope to use my baseline to play around doing a few comparisons to some of the "single format" oriented DACS (i.e., those that excel at DSD or PCM but rarely both) and topology variants like tubes, other ladders, chips, etc. in my own room to see if it can be bettered. There is so much editorializing from people on line regarding this stuff sometimes it makes my head spin. You just gotta do it yourself.

That said, I will be very curious to learn how a well traveled audiophile like you compares the PBD with the GG. As you point out, my thoughts about the Lampi stuff is on the record.
 
wisnon said:
Old stuff. The guy is a DSD hater. Whenyou hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question.Nothing to see there.
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Why do you say he is a DSD hater? He says that DSD can provide spectacular audio performance. You and others may subjectively prefer DSD, but that has nothing to do with the question if the technical arguments in the paper linked in the OP are correct. As far as I understand them, they are correct. I don't see how this is connected to 'hating', it's just facts.
 
Al M. said:
Why do you say he is a DSD hater? He says that DSD can provide spectacular audio performance. You and others may subjectively prefer DSD, but that has nothing to do with the question if the technical arguments in the paper linked in the OP are correct. As far as I understand them, they are correct. I don't see how this is connected to 'hating', it's just facts.
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Tom and others (like Jud) have dealt with is multiple times and on multiple forums. Eg. here:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...irect-stream-d-d-25600/index3.html#post459864

Not about to re-enter that dead-end debate. I have said both formats can sound spectacular and that DSD is "easier" to play back correctly.
Enjoy what you like and I will do the same.
 
wisnon said:
Tom and others (like Jud) have dealt with is multiple times and on multiple forums. Eg. here:
Audio Myth - "DSD Provides a direct stream from A/D to D/A." - Page 3

Not about to re-enter that dead-end debate. I have said both formats can sound spectacular and that DSD is "easier" to play back correctly.
Enjoy what you like and I will do the same.
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Ummm, I don't want to speak for Al but I wonder maybe if part of the problem is that you say things like: "When you hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question." And yet in the same post you call Bud the hater. Do ya think just maybe???

As a founding member of the "Keep Norman Real Society" I endeavor to reference the obvious as it occurs.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Ummm, I don't want to speak for Al but I wonder maybe if part of the problem is that you say things like: "When you hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question." And yet in the same post you call Bud the hater. Do ya think just maybe???

As a founding member of the "Keep Norman Real Society" I endeavor to reference the obvious as it occurs.
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I call Bud a hater? Hahahahah. I have no idea whether Bud likes DSD or not and dont really care. You clearly show up your chip on the shoulder in many of your posts.

I now have to question your comprehension skills. I was clearly speaking about the Benchmark guy and I am far from the first to call him a DSD Hater. People even found it hilarious that despite his anti-DSD tirades, he put the feature in his Dac.

I hope you are well paid for your self appointed job.
 
wisnon said:
I call Bud a hater? Hahahahah. I have no idea whether Bud likes DSD or not and dont really care. You clearly show up your chip on the shoulder in many of your posts.

I now have to question your comprehension skills. I was clearly speaking about the Benchmark guy and I am far from the first to call him a DSD Hater. People even found it hilarious that despite his anti-DSD tirades, he put the feature in his Dac.

I hope you are well paid for your self appointed job.
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Oh my goodness Norman I sincerely apologize for referencing "Bud" instead of "the guy in Bud's post". That was an error on my part. Again, I am sorry for the confusion I created. Norman I am human, I indeed have finite comprehension skills as you rightfully point out, and I make mistakes. I will always invite folks on the forum to straighten me out when I am wrong. IMO thats the way adults on forums and in life generally try to behave.

With that said, I am not sure what is relevant about your comment other than correctly pointing out my human frailty, but with that cleared up allow me to restate my position:

Ummm, I don't want to speak for Al but I wonder maybe if part of the problem is that you say things like: "When you hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question." And yet in the same post you call the guy in Bud's post the hater. Do ya think just maybe???

As a founding member of the "Keep Norman Real Society" I endeavor to reference the obvious as it occurs.
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