Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference
- Thread starter Mechnutt
- Start date
That's really what cables is all about. It's not to change the way the system sounds but enhancing the system to new heights!Should I remind you of the thread at WBF where you where insisting that jitter on the wire could be stored with the file on an HDD? You were properly educated in that thread but here you are again with the same non-sense.
Ethernet is FIFO buffered. This means as the data is transmitted from one system (Ethernet) to another (PCIe) to another (RAM) to another (L3/L2 Cache) to another (RAM set aside by the OS again) to another (USB Buffer) to another (DAC Buffer).
1. That this information has been copied multiple times
2. That to effectively deal with clock domain boundaries that FIFO buffers are used so that data can be read into buffer and read out of buffer without worry of data loss.
Two really good papers:
T.I.Reducing radiated emissions of 10/100 lan cabling
Siemons The Antenna Myth
Search YT for a Clock Domain Boundaries
Then there is my still standing offer:
My $2000 to anyones $500 plus travel expenses paid by loser. I'll supply a client/server computer. JRiver and your tracks. End users stack from the USB cable on back. Two rounds of 10 A/B blinded. Get 18 out of 20 and you'll be $2000 better off for ~30 minutes worth of effort.
Cookie included.
Sorry, bits are indeed bits.
Thanks for the welcome. I'm hoping people will read the T.I. and Siemons paper and watch a YT video or 2 on Clock Domain Boundaries, FIFO buffers, and why the Jitter argument WRT Ethernet is a total red herring and can absolutely not effect DAC output on a competently designed system.
In another test I took a Cisco SG200-8 L3 managed switch with ports 7/8 in a LACP Dynamic LAG. I installed a 2 port Intel Server NIC and configured for LACP Passive.
I fed a Cary Audio DMS 500 with this and played back 24/192 tracks over SMB share. During playback I was able to swap the cables. No one could ever tell me when the cable was swapped or how many changes were made.
The cables?
$700 Nordost Heimdall II 3 foot RJE
$90 Hypertek CAT5e 315 foot RJE
In another test I took a Cisco SG200-8 L3 managed switch with ports 7/8 in a LACP Dynamic LAG. I installed a 2 port Intel Server NIC and configured for LACP Passive.
I fed a Cary Audio DMS 500 with this and played back 24/192 tracks over SMB share. During playback I was able to swap the cables. No one could ever tell me when the cable was swapped or how many changes were made.
The cables?
$700 Nordost Heimdall II 3 foot RJE
$90 Hypertek CAT5e 315 foot RJE
Ethernet is based on a 25MHz clock multipied out. That clock is an analog signal that is going to be some sort of PAM 16 (there are others).
Here's the other part: Ethernet is asynch and there is no audio timing whatsoever. As you increase speeds the quicker a buffer fills.
That means the more time that various power sections can actually be powered down by the OS when the Ethernet PHY isn't in use.
What's really cool? 10GBe can go over 145 feet of 15 year old CAT5e. Yep 1250MB a second. You could literally transfer 120 CDs in 60 seconds over $0.25 cabling you had installed in 2002.
still-one
Active member
Let's say I accept the position of several individuals here that upgraded ethernet cables can make a difference. In my set-up I guess I could install one between my router and my sonicTransporter. The problem is my Rossini is at the end of about a 40' run of ethernet cable and I am not paying Big $$$$ for a special cable. One option would be to disconnect that long ethernet run from my router to the Rossini and install a Ethernet Switch. The long run would terminate at the switch and I could install one of these high quality cables using a short run from between the switch and Rossini.
The question for believers is 1) might that help? 2) would the addition of a switch negate and benefits?
The question for believers is 1) might that help? 2) would the addition of a switch negate and benefits?
blueoak
New member
Obviously they do not have the golden ear that experienced audiophiles such as us have. We've been in the hobby for 30+ years and understand how to listen for clarity and subtleties in music. Such a novice needs many years of experience to understand and apply their knowledge.
The better test is to use the more expensive cables - especially platinum CAT8E - and use another method of testing: printing color images and posting on Facebook. All of my color prints using premium cable are more 3D and vibrant color; this is very easy to see. In terms of Facebook, when I post content it becomes jitter free and is able to be posted on Facebook faster with a cleaner signal. The obvious effect is that I always receive more likes on content posted with my premium cable vs. standard CAT5E.
The premium platinum CAT7E allows DACs to use higher clock speed and pass more bits, and do so without jitter and delay. What you hear is more detail, no artifacts, and a full encompassing soundstage.
Kingsrule
Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2014
- Messages
- 646
Replace the 40' run with fiber. The best $100 u will ever spend on audio. I think u will be very thankful for the suggestion....
WiFi is easier with all the benefits.
Rayooo
Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2013
- Messages
- 422
Yea but WiFi causes a narrow soundstage. :snicker:
Phishphan
Active member
Wifi doesn’t sound as good. I’ll agree with that. But a quality constructed Ethernet cable doesn’t need to cost a lot. Spending over 10 bucks is a waste.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No Er about it.
How about this: On your stack I'll spin up Tidal or JRiver. Start playback over Wifi and I'll randomly turn on Airplane mode. You let me know when the Wifi is on or off ;-)
I've got $2000 to your $500 that says you can't do it blinded.
Heck I'll go $5000 to your $1000 on your stack USB on back. I'll set it up that we can do both WiFi and Wired. JRiver and 24/192 content.
Audio is played back out of buffer.
This is a massive failure to understand how packet data works.
Someone please explain that if playback over WiFi is started, and then airplane mode is enabled, and the music still plays:
1. Is it magic?
2. Where's the music at?
3. Did the sound get worse
4. Did the sound get better
5. Did the sound stay the same
1. Is it magic?
2. Where's the music at?
3. Did the sound get worse
4. Did the sound get better
5. Did the sound stay the same
I have a 240GB wireshark capture of WiFi playback with 0 error's if you would like to download it.
Phishphan
Active member
I take Wifi and Ethernet out of the chain during playback. My Aurender N10 has two 4TB hard drives.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's a simple question:
If I start playback over WiFi or Wired and I break the connection and music continues to play back (Tidal does this folks):
1. Is it magic?
2. Where's the music at?
3. Did the sound get better?
4. Did the sound get worse?
5. Did the sound stay the same?
Why can't anyone answer such basic questions?
I'll add another: Where's the jitter?
If I start playback over WiFi or Wired and I break the connection and music continues to play back (Tidal does this folks):
1. Is it magic?
2. Where's the music at?
3. Did the sound get better?
4. Did the sound get worse?
5. Did the sound stay the same?
Why can't anyone answer such basic questions?
I'll add another: Where's the jitter?