I recall that there were a few reports from Lumin users about getting slightly better SQ from Ethernet than from USB drive. This makes sense to me because USB HDD itself causes EMI / RFI and introduces mechanical vibration. More importantly, USB HDD draws power and therefore strains the Lumin power supply and the power supply noise is increased. Power is of utmost importance to audio. Therefore, I'd encourage you to get a NAS (a fanless one if your music library is not too large) and install MinimServer, or purchase a L1, then use the setup I'd described in post #16.
Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference
- Thread starter Mechnutt
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I recall that there were a few reports from Lumin users about getting slightly better SQ from Ethernet than from USB drive. This makes sense to me because USB HDD itself causes EMI / RFI and introduces mechanical vibration. More importantly, USB HDD draws power and therefore strains the Lumin power supply and the power supply noise is increased. Power is of utmost importance to audio. Therefore, I'd encourage you to get a NAS (a fanless one if your music library is not too large) and install MinimServer, or purchase a L1, then use the setup I'd described in post #16.
Not arguing but stating the correct facts. You don't want to know my specialty but I don't think you are aware of anything remotely related to networking the way you are circulating mis-information - as an example, in your earlier post you said:
which is plain and simply wrong. And now you have corrected your post with "TCP/IP" when I had stated in my previous post that its not IP that is capable of any correction/re-transmission. If you are not using Tidal or any networking streaming service or networking streamer (like a microRendu, SoTm, Jplay dual PC) in you audio chain, its beyond me how Ethernet cable comes to play for better SQ, apart from affecting the electrical characteristics of a connected component. Anyway, I don't want to drag this further as there is already a lot of mis-information circulated in the internet forums about networking and this is my last post on this topic
I agree. I started with a 3.5" spinning drive and later moved to SSD powered using a excellent lps, the SQ jumped quiet a bit. All these small little things can have a major impact on SQ if the rest of the system is very revealing and transparent.
Kuoppis
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Do not want to continue a conversation, when there does not seem to be a common interest. But just for your better understanding: in the IT and telecoms industries “IP connection” typically refers to a connection based on TCP/IP, independent of what the overlaying protocols are used on top of it. Your argument is a little bit like stating you said vinyl but did not mention you are using a turntable. Also, I am using Tidal among other things and I think 25 years in IT and telecoms should suffice for starters.
It is surprising that you still continue an argument, while obviously not really being in the know.
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It is surprising that you still continue an argument, while obviously not really being in the know.
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BlueFox
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Ethernet cables carry an analog signal that represents a digital signal. The receiver converts the analog to digital. Since the signal is analog, jitter can be introduced, which can degrade the audio.
octadyndude
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Bud Don't you mean ethernet carries a digital signal that represents an analog signal. The DAC converts the digital to analog. Jitter can be introduced at the digital side which can affect the audio.
BlueFox
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No. That is completely wrong.
octadyndude
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The only time I ever hrad of ethernet cables being used for analog is with DIY projects where folks use ethernet for speaker or interconnect cables.
octadyndude
New member
The only time I ever heard of ethernet cables being used for analog is with DIY projects where folks use ethernet for speaker or interconnect cables.
sorry for the typo
sorry for the typo
Nikhil
Member
Down at the wire you still have voltages being used to construct and transmit signals.
A "1" is a high voltage and a "0" is a low(er) voltage etc.
"Digital" in essence is a method of handling those signals.
This may have been posted before - digital is not simply 1s & 0s:
https://www.audiostream.com/content/draft
https://www.audiostream.com/content/draft
sure, at least your personal 'bias' would not have entered into the mix.
blueoak
New member
I use the $2,200 Diamond Ethernet cable from AudioQuest for my color printer. The pictures are more 3D, colorful, and overall lifelike. It simply isn't 1s and 0s, because the signal is transmitted in analog. My ears are getting old, but my eyesight is very good. I can easily compare printouts from my cheap $5 Chinese Ethernet cable and my $2,200 Diamond Ethernet cable from AudioQuest. I also noticed that the AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet cable makes Facebook more natural to use and I get more likes on my pictures.
Thanks
Thanks
Kuoppis
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Are you serious? This is really interesting, never would have thought there would be such an impact.
That leads us back to the assumption that you get less artifacts/ transmission errors with a high quality cable. For me personally this was the best/ most valuable posting in this thread, somewhat an eye-opener or proof from another field of science.
Thanks for sharing.
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blueoak
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Kuoppis
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That’s cool, thank you for the Sunday morning eye-opener [emoji3].
That task is typically reserved for my cuppa java, but I don’t complain.
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blueoak
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It was an eye-opener for me as well. As soon as I seen my printer was producing better color and more 3D feel, I knew that cables mattered. I now upgrade all my speaker cables, interconnects, USB, and everything else to AudioQuest WEL Signature/Diamond level. I am proud that the cables in my system represent about 70% of the cost of the system. There are no other components which have been able to easily produce better upgrades than the cables. Once I seen the AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet produce better results on my printer and Facebook, I knew that I had to apply the best cables throughout my entire system.
octadyndude
New member
The great part about cables is that if you really love the sound of your system cables can really improve what you already have.
Do ethernet cables make a difference? I found this reply on another forum and thought that I would share here. (This response was written by the COO of Roon in response to that same question raised by Roon users).
Quote:
...When a digital audio stream is altered it can happen a few ways:
In the case of #1, if the errors are caught, a retransmit can be requested and if the retransmitted data arrives fast enough that the buffer is not emptied, then the resultant stream is still perfect with no error.
Checksums and sequences numbers can prevent #2 easily, but #1’s retransmits can still take too long to arrive. This can result in a buffer emptying. If the buffer is emptied, you will hear a loop of the buffer or zeros or something else bogus. The sound wave has been damaged; the DAC will not find a continuous audio wave, and will output very unexpected results.
This usually can be heard as a large click or pop, or as silence. A non-networked example of this that we have all heard is a CD that skips. That just means it couldn’t read the data off the CD (and it can verify that the data is valid using the same techniques listed above) before the buffer ran out. There is no “quality loss” when a CD skips… it’s just an “obvious error”. It’s not like the sound got muddy or lost fidelity in some way, it just went to sh*t.
The worst of the worst ethernet cable would result in the bits being damaged/lost – a good protocol can catch #2, so #1 is the case to worry about. That case would result in retransmits, which if the cable was bad enough, wouldnt arrive in time in a verifiable manner, meaning you would hear “obvious errors”, and not fidelity loss.
The reality of these retransmits is that they happen fast and buffers are relatively long, so even if your network is shit, things probably just work fine. The digital stream can not be altered along the way. That’s the point of making it digital.
Note that ALL of the above is purely in the digital part of this signal path, and claims about a bad cable, noise, ground loops can not affect it, because digital is built on mathematics, and not the realities of electricity. Either it arrives there good and verifiable, or it does not. This binary good or bad nature of a “reliable digital stream” is what drives the “bits are bits” guys nuts when audio guys talk about digital streams being affected by anything.
The claims about noise, ground loops, or whatever else is purely in how that digital stream is interpreted into analog, which is not a digital process. That stuff can not be verified – thus all the trouble. This is what drives the audio guys nuts when the “bits are bits” guys tell them they are old and not versed in information theory.
Quote:
...When a digital audio stream is altered it can happen a few ways:
- bits are changed and/or lost and caught by error correction techniques causing a retransmit
- bits are changed and/or lost and not caught by error correction techniques so they are allowed to be played
In the case of #1, if the errors are caught, a retransmit can be requested and if the retransmitted data arrives fast enough that the buffer is not emptied, then the resultant stream is still perfect with no error.
Checksums and sequences numbers can prevent #2 easily, but #1’s retransmits can still take too long to arrive. This can result in a buffer emptying. If the buffer is emptied, you will hear a loop of the buffer or zeros or something else bogus. The sound wave has been damaged; the DAC will not find a continuous audio wave, and will output very unexpected results.
This usually can be heard as a large click or pop, or as silence. A non-networked example of this that we have all heard is a CD that skips. That just means it couldn’t read the data off the CD (and it can verify that the data is valid using the same techniques listed above) before the buffer ran out. There is no “quality loss” when a CD skips… it’s just an “obvious error”. It’s not like the sound got muddy or lost fidelity in some way, it just went to sh*t.
The worst of the worst ethernet cable would result in the bits being damaged/lost – a good protocol can catch #2, so #1 is the case to worry about. That case would result in retransmits, which if the cable was bad enough, wouldnt arrive in time in a verifiable manner, meaning you would hear “obvious errors”, and not fidelity loss.
The reality of these retransmits is that they happen fast and buffers are relatively long, so even if your network is shit, things probably just work fine. The digital stream can not be altered along the way. That’s the point of making it digital.
Note that ALL of the above is purely in the digital part of this signal path, and claims about a bad cable, noise, ground loops can not affect it, because digital is built on mathematics, and not the realities of electricity. Either it arrives there good and verifiable, or it does not. This binary good or bad nature of a “reliable digital stream” is what drives the “bits are bits” guys nuts when audio guys talk about digital streams being affected by anything.
The claims about noise, ground loops, or whatever else is purely in how that digital stream is interpreted into analog, which is not a digital process. That stuff can not be verified – thus all the trouble. This is what drives the audio guys nuts when the “bits are bits” guys tell them they are old and not versed in information theory.