Atlantic DAC - Incoming

Re: 6moons review is in

abeidrov said:
You are probably right, and in this case it is yet another evidence, that DSD trough the new R2R engine is really good.
I read on another forum, that with R2R, a DAC converts DSD signal to PCM anyway before moving it to the output stage. Do you guys know if this is true for the Lampi R2R?
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No idea.

What I can say is that last weekend, chipless was the clear winner! One fellow stated that it was a MUST, and he would not even listed to the R2R DSD if he had a choice. Not that it was bad, but that chipless was so enchanting.
 
Re: 6moons review is in

abeidrov said:
A quote from the 6moons review:"the LampizatOr uses two separate paths for PCM and DSD. For the latter, the FPGA is programmed as a simple analog low pass filter whose output goes straight into the tube stage. There is no DSD to PCM conversion so the DSD signal bypasses the R-2R ladder altogether. "
If I read this correctly, the DAC, that 6moons reviewed, is not a stock Atlantic, as it had a separate engine for DSD. The stock Atlantic supports DSD through the R2R engine and switches between PCM and DSD automatically. So, all the conclusions that 6moons made about DSD sound have been made based on the sound of the old Lampizator analog filter based DSD engine..
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According to other reviews and to the Atlantic manual, that quote is correct. The USB input routes PCM to the R2R board, and routes DSD directly to the output filter. There's not a "DAC" for DSD, just a filter.

http://lampizator.eu/Manuals/Atlantic/Atlantic.pdf see page 34
 
BTW, just to be sure, wrote Lampizator and asked about DSD on the Atlantic. Got an answer direct from Lukasz:

the R2R ladder is bypassed and only filtering is applied at the very end of it.It sounds YUMMY
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so DSD is not R2R, only PCM is
 
firedog said:
BTW, just to be sure, wrote Lampizator and asked about DSD on the Atlantic. Got an answer direct from Lukasz:



so DSD is not R2R, only PCM is
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So, this is exactly as the old DSD, only no need to push the button? Can you ask Lukasz?
Thanks!
 
abeidrov said:
So, this is exactly as the old DSD, only no need to push the button? Can you ask Lukasz?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
He is at the Warsaw show, so only very brief answers. It seems this is an FPGA approach and the old chipless is a separate (and - I assume- more unconstrained, greenfield "macro " discrete filter box). My impression is that chipless is more "old school" and I like that better. Lukasz tends to like the R2R solution better, but admits that transport synergy is the determining factor.

My vote is for chipless from what I have heard to date, but admit that the R2R version is quite good!
 
My vote is for new R2R. Having to switch over between DSD and PCM is a PITA. Chipless is maybe a tiny tiny bit better on DSD. But overall, when combining PCM and DSD and the convenience of not having to switch, it's a no brainer. If you go chipless, the first time you get a BLAST through your speakers when you accidentally play PCM through DSD, you'll remember what I said.
 
Mike, I think you misunderstand me!

I NEEED BOTH DSDs. The R2R for nrmal mixed playlist listening and Chipless for critical DSD listening.

Chipless is just for DSD only playback or upsampling occasions. Normally, i would use the R2R just for the ease of it.

I have done the blast too, though with a remote, you have less fear.

Here is the kicker though Mike....With the R2R and chipless Atalntic demo, when you switch to Chipless and play PCM accidentally, you hear....NOTHING!

Yah...I LOVE this setup. Now I dont even need the Vol control, as remote switching is no longer and everyday thing.

Look, I took your R2R autoswitching argument and raised it to foolproof chipless switching. Hehehe
 
Norman, I'm a little confused about something you said: "With the R2R and chipless Atalntic demo, when you switch to Chipless and play PCM accidentally, you hear....NOTHING!"

I thought with the new Atlantic you don't have to switch anything as the dac will automatically play DSD and PCM files without me switching the channels on a remote like I do now with the L4 with volume control. Am I wrong?
 
Jason, I responded earlier but my post is gone...or maybe it didn't take?

Basic atlantic is with RSR module and has ppm and DSD. The Swiss demo unit has an option in addition, i.e. Chipless DSD512 module, so that when you press the front button, you go from R2R to chipless. If you select chiles DSD and accidentally play ppm, you get no sound. So the risk that used to exist is gone. If you select R2R, you get music no matter the format.
 
Wisnon, was the DSD comparison both at 256 or was one 256 and other 512? Since both are "chip less" in that only a low-pass filter is applied, it seems odd that such a dramatic difference would be present at the same sample rate.
 
we only did native rate playback at 64/128/256. Nothing at 512, native or up sampled.
 
Hi there
I think I can bring some more insight to these matters.
The Atlantic vs. Der Siebner took place at my home and I still have the Atlantic here. In fact, I'm listening to it right now :congrats:

As Norman said, this Atlantic has two engines. The stock R2R PCM AND DSD up to DSD256 capable autoswitching engine and an additional chipless DSD only engine, capable up to DSD512.

When Norman and some more folks were here, we compared the two engines with native DSD material and for us, in my system and to our ears, the chipless engine sounded better than the R2R combined PCM and DSD engine.
After Lukasz told Norman that he preferred the R2R engine over the chipless with DSD, I got curious and intensly tested again, this time also with redbook upconverted to DSD256 with HQPlayer and I still prefer the chipless engine. Again, this is in my system with my transport.
Btw. there are absolutely NO clicks, bumps, thumps or other noises when switching from one Engine to the other and absolute silence when you try to play PCM via the DSD only engine.
I would go so far to call that part idiotproof :rolleyes:

To summarize my experiences with this absolutely outstanding DAC, I would recommend the following:
I would definitely go with the tube rectification, for me it sounded so much better than with the solid state recti that imho it's a no-brainer.

superclocks are a must order.


And here come the variables:
If you want to geek out, already have a capable PC with HQPlayer and want the best possible sound on a budget, I would go DSD only with the chipless DSD engine and upconvert everything to DSD256 or DSD512, depending on the power of your PC.

If you want a family friendly (=foolproof) DAC that sounds excellent without hassle and worries, but are on a budget, you should order the R2R PCM and DSD256 capable autoswitch engine.

If you can afford both engines, you can have it all: hassle free listening in very high quality for the family AND geek out on the quest for the last percent of sonic nirvana.

For me, tube recti and superclocks were not negotiable ;)

Thanks to Norman for the demo and to Lukasz for designing such wonderful music machines :audiophile:

PS: I found Der Siebner is the more grown up and more important sounding DAC, but I preferred the Atlantic clearly as it was more involving and more musical. For me, Der Siebner was too german, too preussisch correct, at least for my taste :rolleyes:
 
Again, or I'm misunderstanding or you guys are writing something incorrect. The standard 256 DSD and PCM autoswitching Atlantic (without DSD 512) also has 2 engines: one R2R for PCM and a separate path for DSD. The DSD doesn't go to the R2R board, it goes straight to a filter that produces analog output from the DSD stream. So even in standard Atlantic the DSD is chipless. The switching of signal paths is sensed at the USB input and happens automatically (unlike most Lampis).

The difference is that if you add on the 512 option the DSD engine that comes standard in the Atlantic is replaced with a different chipless solution for DSD, one that is in most of the other Lampi models.

So if I understand, the model you have is something a bit different. What really needs to be done for this comparison is to compare 2 Atlantics - one with 256 and one with 512, and see how big a difference there is in DSD playback. Then you'd have a fair comparison of the 2 engines.

Or I totally misunderstood. :)

BTW, there's now a Lampi dealer not far from where I live. At the end of next week I'm going to hear an Atlantic and a Big 7 for the first time!
 
Hi FD,

You slightly misunderstand.

Basic Atlantic come with R2R for both ppm and dsd, with the DSD being bypassed from the latter and low passed using the pga control. This only goes to dsd256. If you order the geeked out DSD512 option, this is the discrete board Chipless similar to the older DSD, but going all the way to 512...so its new and pushes the limits. You can order the Atlantic DSD only and all you get is the cjipless512.

This particular demo has BOTH types off DSD. This means that we could test BOTH types of DSD switching back and forth with JUST a much of the front panel button on the fly. Of course, only one of the 2 would do DSD512, so that can't be directly compared. From 256 and below,,,,we can compare easily. Lukasz said the outcome is Transport/software dependent.
 
Norman, thanks for all the info. Did you happen to compare PCM through the R2R board vs upsampled to DSD through either of the DSD modules?
 
I'm curious to know how native redbook compared to redbook upsampled to DSD. 6 moons compared upsampled PCM to upsampled DSD. Upsampled PCM lacks emotional involvement somehow, IMO.
 
Just auditioned an Atlantic (standard), Big7, and Playback Designs Merlot.
I liked the Atlantic, but quickly decided it sounded best with all files converted by HQP to. 256 DSD beforehand.

For comparison, I also listened to the B7 in 256 DSD only. Interestingly, I thought it sounded very similar to the Atlantic on a few tracks, and significantly better on most others. Liked it a lot.
But I thought the best of the bunch was the Merlot. Very detailed and resolving, but still a natural sound. It's also a chipless Dac, but uses an upgradeable FPGA, for conversion and filtering. Incoming DSD 128 isn't altered, and goes directly to the filter.
 
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