Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?

Can I ask why can't you press a dome? If you had the appropriate tool why not? Do you believe it can't due to the precision / tight tolerances required?
 
sb6 said:
Considering Magico prides itself on developing all drivers in house I'd be surprised if they leveraged drivers from any vendor especially for their new flagship M9. My information comes from the Magico site. The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers
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the 11" Magico bass driver (2 per tower) has lot's of common design attributes to this Accuton 11" bass driver (of which there are 4 of in each of my speakers).

Accuton S280-6-282 11" Sandwich Cone Woofer

likely not an accident. my MM7 passive towers are 97db efficient; if they only had 2 of these drivers they would be 94db efficient. and the M9's just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that.

find another 11" woofer that covers 30hz to 250hz that is 92db efficient. you won't find one. only this one. which is why Magico choose it. then they modified it. nothing nefarious about it. i can tell you that no dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers. and this driver is key to that. no crossover in the power range of the music. like a planar. with 4 there is little driver excursion. quite the effect. and with high efficiency you get ease in the amplifier. all around magical. Magico. :P

i've had my speakers for 8 years. so long before the M9's were even a twinkle in Alon's eye. if these 11" Magico drivers did not begin life as Accutons, then Magico certainly used the Accuton's as design inspiration.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
the 11" Magico bass driver (2 per tower) has lot's of common design attributes to this Accuton 11" bass driver (of which there are 4 of in each of my speakers).

Accuton S280-6-282 11" Sandwich Cone Woofer

likely not an accident. my MM7 passive towers are 97db efficient; if they only had 2 of these drivers they would be 94db efficient. and the M9's just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that.

find another 11" woofer that covers 30hz to 250hz that is 92db efficient. you won't find one. only this one. which is why Magico choose it. then they modified it. nothing nefarious about it. i can tell you that no dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers. and this driver is key to that. no crossover in the power range of the music. like a planar. with 4 there is little driver excursion. quite the effect. and with high efficiency you get ease in the amplifier. all around magical. Magico. :P

i've had my speakers for 8 years. so long before the M9's were even a twinkle in Alon's eye. if these 11" Magico drivers did not begin life as Accutons, then Magico certainly used the Accuton's as design inspiration.
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First off, based on your link that 11" ceramic driver is ~91DB efficient being rare - here are a few others that have the same sensitivity across the same frequency range which, to be frank 30 - 250Hz is nothing extraordinary: My previous speaker the Usher BE20s driver is the last one FYI.
Scan-Speak 28W/4878T-01 Revelator 11" Woofer- 4 ohm
Eton 11-212 Symphony II - 11" Kevlar Woofer

Second, your passive towers and the M9s efficiency is not comprised solely of mid woofers. The 94 DB is a complete speaker impedance value so your supposition that the "M9s just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that." doesn't hold water.

Third - You comment about, "No dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers" is conceit (as you looove to bring up your system in every post) and is your opinion. And while I'm sure it sounds great is it the best mid bass ever?, Ha ha, it's a big planet my friend and the ultra speaker bar keeps climbing. In fact, I recall an owner of MM7s selling his to have EA upgrade above the older and smaller MM7s. Then there's the big Gryphons, Rockport Arrakis with complementary subs, the Von Schweikert Ultra 11s, the Infinity Vs and, well you get the point.

A humble man once said - There's always something better. ;)
 
Mike Lavigne said:
the 11" Magico bass driver (2 per tower) has lot's of common design attributes to this Accuton 11" bass driver (of which there are 4 of in each of my speakers).

Accuton S280-6-282 11" Sandwich Cone Woofer

likely not an accident. my MM7 passive towers are 97db efficient; if they only had 2 of these drivers they would be 94db efficient. and the M9's just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that.

find another 11" woofer that covers 30hz to 250hz that is 92db efficient. you won't find one. only this one. which is why Magico choose it. then they modified it. nothing nefarious about it. i can tell you that no dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers. and this driver is key to that. no crossover in the power range of the music. like a planar. with 4 there is little driver excursion. quite the effect. and with high efficiency you get ease in the amplifier. all around magical. Magico. :P

i've had my speakers for 8 years. so long before the M9's were even a twinkle in Alon's eye. if these 11" Magico drivers did not begin life as Accutons, then Magico certainly used the Accuton's as design inspiration.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

Reading Magico’s and Accuton’s description of their 11 inch woofers, it appears that Magico has used Accuton’s basket, neodymium magnets and titanium voice coil in their M9 speaker. The description is identical word for word. However, the speaker cones on the M9’s are designed, manufactured and unique to Magico as they utilize a carbon-graphene/aluminum honeycomb core/carbon-graphene sandwich proprietary design. This is a significant differentiator from Accuton’s ceramic sandwich speaker cones.

The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers

Best,
Ken
 
Elberoth has made several posts in years past where he was able to identify the manufacturers of various driver models used in Magico speakers. As a the driving force behind Europe's second largest audio show, he is in a position of familiarity with a number of key high end audio component vendors. It seems that Magico has used a variety of driver manufacturers over the years. Magico's primary driver innovations have come in the cone elements (Magico's) used to complete the drivers used in their speakers. They may have also had their vendors make other custom alterations to achieve their goals.
 
Alpinist said:
Hi Mike,

Reading Magico’s and Accuton’s description of their 11 inch woofers, it appears that Magico has used Accuton’s basket, neodymium magnets and titanium voice coil in their M9 speaker. The description is identical word for word. However, the speaker cones on the M9’s are designed, manufactured and unique to Magico as they utilize a carbon-graphene/aluminum honeycomb core/carbon-graphene sandwich proprietary design. This is a significant differentiator from Accuton’s ceramic sandwich speaker cones.

The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers

Best,
Ken
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Looks like they might have used the basket and voice coil and that's it. EA used the stock 120mm magnet while Magico doubled it with, "a second matching magnet on top for complete control of voice coil movement". For the cone EA used the stock ceramic and Magico uses their own Nano-Tec cones with Aluminum honeycomb core. Also, if the picture on Magico’s site is correct, it looks like a completely different driver and possibly nothing is leveraged from Accuton.
Accuton (EA stock driver)
s280-6-282.jpg

Magico (partial to no leverage from Accuton)
AHC+COne.jpg
 
Mike Lavigne said:
... so now i had ceramic drivers from 30hz to 3khz. wow and double wow. no dynamic driver speaker i have heard can do what the MM7's do in these frequencies. ceramic is inherently stiff and light, and retains linearity and lack of distortion.
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I´m with you

In 2015 i said here about the Marten Coltrane and ceramic drivers

ULTIMATE SESSIONS NO PORTO

Several brands have experimented with most diverse materials in the pursuit of greater rigidity and lightness of the cones, often looking for an opening that ends up sounding artificial. Among others, Focal has followed its own line and Monitor Audio (among others) is well known for its projects using metal. In the past audioshow I heard Raidho for the first time with their ceramic cones and the sound didn't quite convince me. In this material, only Thiel left me with a good memory. Still, I continued to prefer the “card” (and its variants or composites). But in this second contact with Marten, did I confirm the naturalness of the ceramic drivers used lend sound reproduction. They give the sound an opening that never sounds artificial, a clarity that never outshines. The timbres are therefore the most natural that I have ever heard.


Unfortunately they are not for my wallet :blush:
 
I just noticed this speaker system, which may be trying to combine most of the "exotic" driver materials into one system :)
 
Maybe. If you go to ASR then all you need is to find a speaker with some good spins and a decent modern class d amp, any dac will do as they all measure within our hearing ability. A sota system shouldn't cost more than a few thousand dollars, the problem with you audiophiles is you let your ears fool you. :)
 
kiwi_1282001 said:
Driver materials do matter – at least in this designer’s opinion. The video shows analysis for two mid range drivers, an ultra-rigid carbon-fiber/balsa core design vs. “a very expensive paper driver cone that is employed in some very high-end speaker designs.”


Source: “The Truth About Pistonic Driver Cones”, The Truth About Pistonic Driver Cones | Vandersteen Audio Accessed 20 Dec 2020.
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How does it look with xover applied limiting out of bandwidth distortion ..?
 
Alpinist said:
According to Richard, his speakers are time and phase coherent. I assume he would know. I adjusted my post to reflect this.

Ken
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He uses first order slopes( phase ) and shaped baffle alignment (Time) , hence his phase/Time comments ...


Regards
 
rbbert said:
No doubt speaker efficiency as commonly specified is of limited use in determining amplifier power requirements. It is interesting, though, that in general the more "efficient" a speaker system the flatter its impedance curve tends to be. Not surprising, though, since these speakers will typically have simpler crossover networks and often more powerful magnets for a given driver size.
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Speaker efficiency is very rarely specified , speaker sensitivity is what is mostly given in specs ..


Regards
 
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