Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?

[Noam]

A short story from Munich High End 2019. I was at the other audio show, located at a hotel... Can't remember the name. I was sitting alone listening to one of the greatest system possible, the mighty magico m6, I stayed and stayed and just couldn't figure out what's wrong with it. I was so underwhelmed and bored! How could it be I asked my self, while watching other visitors coming and going, nobody stayed longer then 5 minutes. It was cruel...
The next room I went was just mesmerising, audionote speakers playing some beautiful jazz, live recordings.. Both speakers were shoved to the far room corners. You know, it just didn't made sense, a prehistoric cabinet with paper and silk drivers in the worst position possible made Musik and emotions of such beauty. SOTA? Well no, but does it matter?!?! This room was full, and stayed full till the sun went down.

 

[Mike]

A short story from Munich High End 2019. I was at the other audio show, located at a hotel... Can't remember the name. I was sitting alone listening to one of the greatest system possible, the mighty magico m6, I stayed and stayed and just couldn't figure out what's wrong with it. I was so underwhelmed and bored! How could it be I asked my self, while watching other visitors coming and going, nobody stayed longer then 5 minutes. It was cruel...
The next room I went was just mesmerising, audionote speakers playing some beautiful jazz, live recordings.. Both speakers were shoved to the far room corners. You know, it just didn't made sense, a prehistoric cabinet with paper and silk drivers in the worst position possible made Musik and emotions of such beauty. SOTA? Well no, but does it matter?!?! This room was full, and stayed full till the sun went down.

The hotel was the Marriott and the show was Munich HiFi Deluxe (not related to the proper Munich High End show). The room with the M6’s was a closet sized room run by the bozos at TotalDAC who never seemingly can get a good sounding room at any show. It was a complete disaster of a setup in a room 10 times too small for those speakers. They were also jammed into the corners and set way back because there was no room. They also had this weird plastic table in the middle of the room which was causing reflections. The room would have been too small for M2’s frankly.

If you heard the M6’s at the Munich High End show, especially the large Soulution/Critical Mass room, you would hear how incredible these speakers can sound when properly setup. We used M6’s at The Florida Audio Expo and won best of show.

As for the Audio Note speakers, they were definitely not my cup of tea. When I went in, the room was empty.

 

[Noam]

Yes, I have (of course) went straight to the m6 at the high end munich and was very much relieved! My point is, like you wrote earlier, it is so much more than placing some esoteric drivers in a fancy cabinet. Anyway, I learnt a good deal that evening.

 

[Mike]

Yes, I have (of course) went straight to the m6 at the high end munich and was very much relieved! My point is, like you wrote earlier, it is so much more than placing some esoteric drivers in a fancy cabinet. Anyway, I learnt a good deal that evening.

Yes indeed.

 

[sb6]

i cannot recall, and realize i said it was based on that 11" Accuton Ceramic woofer driver and then modified. maybe Accuton changed the membrane for Magico. there are very few high efficiency 11" woofers out there. if you have alternate information about the source of that particular 11" driver then enlighten us.

and i could be wrong.

Considering Magico prides itself on developing all drivers in house I'd be surprised if they leveraged drivers from any vendor especially for their new flagship M9. My information comes from the Magico site. The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers

 

[rbbert]

It's interesting that the M9 has a rated sensitivity of 94 dB, while the A5 is 88 dB? Does the efficiency of the bigger magnets overcome the increased mass of the bigger drivers? Does the new crossover have a simpler circuit path with less heat (or other inefficiency) loss?

 

[sb6]

All things being equal bigger drivers are usually more efficient. The area of the driver supercedes magnet size. Take the Giya G1 to G2, they use the same drivers for H, M-H and M with the only difference the woofers size and the G1 is ~2DB more efficient. Which btw has nothing to do with current requirements.

 

[rbbert]

All things being equal bigger drivers are usually more efficient. The area of the driver supercedes magnet size. Take the Giya G1 to G2, they use the same drivers for H, M-H and M with the only difference the woofers size and the G1 is ~2DB more efficient. Which btw has nothing to do with current requirements.

Cabinet size?

 

[sb6]

Cabinet size?

A) All things being equal bigger drivers are usually more efficient.
B) Cabinet size will have a marginal effect if any in terms of efficiency since the standard spec to measure is 2.83V (assumes 1W with an 8 ohm load) @ 1KHz @1 meter measured on axis.

 

[rbbert]

I meant interior enclosure volume. Depending on the type of enclosure, increased volume will usually result in increased efficiency

 

[sb6]

Thanks Rob, I did understand what you meant hence my B) above (a bigger cabinet results in a larger internal volume). Again at the 1KHz specified frequency the difference is negligible.

Not to get too off topic (which we are somewhat ) but I always questioned the validity of speaker efficiency results since, in and of itself is insufficient to determine power requirements. The impedance curve, one could argue is at least as important.

 

[KeithR]

Interestingly, YG Acoustics does not use SOTA materials in its drivers. Aluminum is hardly SOTA. However, the way they manufacture their driver cones out of aluminum is absolutely SOTA. The cones are milled out of a solid block of aluminum to maximize rigidity and minimize weight. I’ve listened to the Sonja 1.2’s and 2.2’s many times and I continue to be impressed by the realistic sound they produce.

Ken

I think the hybrid tweeter is considered pretty SOTA though

 

[rbbert]

Thanks Rob, I did understand what you meant hence my B) above (a bigger cabinet results in a larger internal volume). Again at the 1KHz specified frequency the difference is negligible.

Not to get too off topic (which we are somewhat ) but I always questioned the validity of speaker efficiency results since, in and of itself is insufficient to determine power requirements. The impedance curve, one could argue is at least as important.

No doubt speaker efficiency as commonly specified is of limited use in determining amplifier power requirements. It is interesting, though, that in general the more "efficient" a speaker system the flatter its impedance curve tends to be. Not surprising, though, since these speakers will typically have simpler crossover networks and often more powerful magnets for a given driver size.

 

[mdp632]

I think the hybrid tweeter is considered pretty SOTA though

+1 I hope 2021 brings the new "entry" level YG speaker. If YG had an "A" series of speaker(s) it would be interesting to see what they will come out with.

It probably won't have the billet dome tweeter but , maybe the other technologies.

 

[brodricj]

I don't know how an aluminium cone would sound any different if it was pressed out of rolled sheet aluminium compared to being cut out of solid block to the same thickness. Unless the grain structure of the metal had something to do with the resulting physical properties.

 

[nicoff]

All this talk about efficiency of a speaker makes little sense to me when you isolate it from the amp.

While efficient speakers can be driven by low power amps (tubes for example), inefficient speakers driven by powerful SS amps can also sing!

 

[u-sound]

I don't know how an aluminium cone would sound any different if it was pressed out of rolled sheet aluminium compared to being cut out of solid block to the same thickness. Unless the grain structure of the metal had something to do with the resulting physical properties.

problem is the tweeter isnt flat

 

[Alpinist]

I don't know how an aluminium cone would sound any different if it was pressed out of rolled sheet aluminium compared to being cut out of solid block to the same thickness. Unless the grain structure of the metal had something to do with the resulting physical properties.

Hi Brodric,

Yes, the the speaker cone milled out of a block of cast aluminum has very different physical properties compared to a speaker cone pressed out of aluminum. It is far more rigid than a pressed piece of aluminum of the same thickness. And the difference in sound quality is significant.

Ken

 

[nicoff]

Hi Brodric,

Yes, the the speaker cone milled out of a block of cast aluminum has very different physical properties compared to a speaker cone pressed out of aluminum. It is far more rigid than a pressed piece of aluminum of the same thickness. And the difference in sound quality is significant.

Ken

I can understand how there would be a difference.

Take the case of steel, for example, cold rolled, cold drawn or hot rolled. They are all made of steel but they have different properties and uses.

 

[sb6]

Hi Brodric,

Yes, the the speaker cone milled out of a block of cast aluminum has very different physical properties compared to a speaker cone pressed out of aluminum. It is far more rigid than a pressed piece of aluminum of the same thickness. And the difference in sound quality is significant.

Ken

I'm not sure I agree. If the material is the same stock and the difference is the process - CNC versus pressed how does that affect the end resulting driver cone? Unless there is excessive stresses placed during the stamping process that, maybe affects the raw material? My gut (and experience) tells me because of their specific application they employ CNC because of the limitations in pressing where CNC is virtually limitless. The added benefit is marketing goodness since milling from a block sounds more exotic and "better".