Are audiophile cables a scam? Copper VS banana VS ???

All I know is that in 2 of my higher end systems I prefer my duelund and Belden 8402 cables for their warmer slightly darker yet detailed sound compared to my Cardas, AQ and a few other cables.
 
It started as a fun DIY project in 2013.
Fancy Interconnects? How about a potato, or even mud?

Fancy Interconnects? How about a potato, or even mud?

OK, we've all heard or read the sales pitch for interconnects of fancy materials and geometries, I've got them all beat. Did you know that you can pass a line level audio signal thru a banana? How about a sweet potato or even a bucket of mud? You can, quite easily. No joke, it really works...
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Then was revived in 2024.
Copper wire vs bananas vs mud - An interconnect test

Copper wire vs bananas vs mud - An interconnect test

EDIT: March 6 2026. There is a new, completely online version of this test in ABX format. You can read about it and find a link in post #320. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/copper-wire-vs-bananas-vs-mud-an-interconnect-test.420367/post-8246163 Do you remember the great fun we had...
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The above YouTube is a late comer.
 
gadawg said:
Yes .. total scam … anyone who has ever bought any expensive cable please send to me and I’ll dispose of them for you! I won’t even charge for the service! :-)

George
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Also, everyone knows it depends on how fresh the fruit is and if it was organically grown. He left out too many important pieces of info! LOL
 
My 2 cents….cables absolutely do matter. There are so many variables like copper, silver, silver plated, gold plated, etc. Then there’s resistance, capacitance, insulation. They will all affect sound.

Are audiophile cables overpriced? Absolutely!
 
I worked in commercial AV installs for a while so was a friend of all things Belden where the important thing was to isolate the power cables from the signal cables but I remember buying my first 'pricey' MIT II biwire cables and hearing a difference. There are those that claim to hear a difference when using fancy aftermarket rhodium plated power cords as well. If I spent $1,000 per foot of interconnect cable, my subconscious brain would force me to hear an improvement lest I feel the fool. Different strokes...
 
bfreidah said:
my subconscious brain would force me to hear an improvement lest I feel the fool.
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Legit question - if your brain tricks you so much to the point you don't trust yourself to make a decision, do you automatically like food at a restaurant if it's more expensive as well?
 
Michaels HiFi said:
Legit question - if your brain tricks you so much to the point you don't trust yourself to make a decision, do you automatically like food at a restaurant if it's more expensive as well?
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I believe so though admittedly, I don't know good from bad when it comes to fancy French cuisine.
 
Two things can be true at the same time. I think cables make a difference. I've likely invested more than prudent in cables. I think they matter, but I have never felt the difference to be "transformational" or "night and day," as some describe. Just an incremental gain, but incremental gains add up, and before you know it, you get a very satisfying listening experience.

At the same time, human beings are subject to all manner of implicit bias, placebo effect, expectation bias, whatever name you prefer. I think this is established science and I've seen clear examples of it in my profession. I have no doubt that it applies to how we judge audio equipment as well.

I see no reason why these two thoughts are mutually exclusive.
 
Kramer64 said:
I see no reason why these two thoughts are mutually exclusive.
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All valid points. However just as it MAY exist it doesn't mean it DOES always exist as many like to claim and be dismissive of more expensive gear. Some of us are capable of making decisions not influenced by cost.

If you come from the view of everything expensive must be "better", than bias likely exists.

If you come from the view of price means nothing I only care about how it sounds, then the motivating factor for this bias is taken out of play.

Virtually every piece of gear I have here was chosen over more expensive options because I focused on sound and not price.

The prevalent attitude of most that bias always exists and we are slaves to being lied to by our own mind is simplistic and dismissive at best.

Again, are people automatically going to like a more expensive restaurant because the food prices are higher, or are they capable of being honest with themselves? Are people able to like a less expensive car over a more expensive car? either we are slave to it 100% of the time like many claim, or *may* only be a factor some of the time.
 
Well, if you saw my system, you would know I'm not a cable denier. I'm what many would call an audiophool. But I think implicit bias is a real thing and I don't think we can will it away anymore than we can control our heart rate by wishing it would change. Nor do I think it makes us "slaves", its just a factor. I think both things can be true at the same time, but that's just my opinion. I think there is plenty of room for good faith differences because at the end of the day, we can all buy what makes us happy. Its an interesting discussion, nothing more.

To me, what is destructive to the hobby is when the debate gets personal and insulting, as it usually does, and it happens on both sides. The ego investment that so many make in audio gear is incredible and one reason that many find the hobby (or hobbyists) to be weird and unwelcoming.
 
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