Are audiophile cables a scam? Copper VS banana VS ???
- Thread starter puroagave
- Start date
Shadowfax
Well-known member
I guess that is why Banana Connectors are so popular
Speedskater
Active member
It started as a fun DIY project in 2013.
Fancy Interconnects? How about a potato, or even mud?
www.diyaudio.com
Then was revived in 2024.
Copper wire vs bananas vs mud - An interconnect test
www.diyaudio.com
The above YouTube is a late comer.
Fancy Interconnects? How about a potato, or even mud?
Fancy Interconnects? How about a potato, or even mud?
OK, we've all heard or read the sales pitch for interconnects of fancy materials and geometries, I've got them all beat. Did you know that you can pass a line level audio signal thru a banana? How about a sweet potato or even a bucket of mud? You can, quite easily. No joke, it really works...
Then was revived in 2024.
Copper wire vs bananas vs mud - An interconnect test
Copper wire vs bananas vs mud - An interconnect test
EDIT: March 6 2026. There is a new, completely online version of this test in ABX format. You can read about it and find a link in post #320. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/copper-wire-vs-bananas-vs-mud-an-interconnect-test.420367/post-8246163 Do you remember the great fun we had...
The above YouTube is a late comer.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
What about Coat Hangers?
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Yes .. total scam … anyone who has ever bought any expensive cable please send to me and I’ll dispose of them for you! I won’t even charge for the service!
George
Also, everyone knows it depends on how fresh the fruit is and if it was organically grown. He left out too many important pieces of info! LOL
Audiophilehi
Member
My 2 cents….cables absolutely do matter. There are so many variables like copper, silver, silver plated, gold plated, etc. Then there’s resistance, capacitance, insulation. They will all affect sound.
Are audiophile cables overpriced? Absolutely!
Are audiophile cables overpriced? Absolutely!
bfreidah
New member
I worked in commercial AV installs for a while so was a friend of all things Belden where the important thing was to isolate the power cables from the signal cables but I remember buying my first 'pricey' MIT II biwire cables and hearing a difference. There are those that claim to hear a difference when using fancy aftermarket rhodium plated power cords as well. If I spent $1,000 per foot of interconnect cable, my subconscious brain would force me to hear an improvement lest I feel the fool. Different strokes...
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Legit question - if your brain tricks you so much to the point you don't trust yourself to make a decision, do you automatically like food at a restaurant if it's more expensive as well?
bfreidah
New member
I believe so though admittedly, I don't know good from bad when it comes to fancy French cuisine.
Two things can be true at the same time. I think cables make a difference. I've likely invested more than prudent in cables. I think they matter, but I have never felt the difference to be "transformational" or "night and day," as some describe. Just an incremental gain, but incremental gains add up, and before you know it, you get a very satisfying listening experience.
At the same time, human beings are subject to all manner of implicit bias, placebo effect, expectation bias, whatever name you prefer. I think this is established science and I've seen clear examples of it in my profession. I have no doubt that it applies to how we judge audio equipment as well.
I see no reason why these two thoughts are mutually exclusive.
At the same time, human beings are subject to all manner of implicit bias, placebo effect, expectation bias, whatever name you prefer. I think this is established science and I've seen clear examples of it in my profession. I have no doubt that it applies to how we judge audio equipment as well.
I see no reason why these two thoughts are mutually exclusive.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
All valid points. However just as it MAY exist it doesn't mean it DOES always exist as many like to claim and be dismissive of more expensive gear. Some of us are capable of making decisions not influenced by cost.
If you come from the view of everything expensive must be "better", than bias likely exists.
If you come from the view of price means nothing I only care about how it sounds, then the motivating factor for this bias is taken out of play.
Virtually every piece of gear I have here was chosen over more expensive options because I focused on sound and not price.
The prevalent attitude of most that bias always exists and we are slaves to being lied to by our own mind is simplistic and dismissive at best.
Again, are people automatically going to like a more expensive restaurant because the food prices are higher, or are they capable of being honest with themselves? Are people able to like a less expensive car over a more expensive car? either we are slave to it 100% of the time like many claim, or *may* only be a factor some of the time.
Well, if you saw my system, you would know I'm not a cable denier. I'm what many would call an audiophool. But I think implicit bias is a real thing and I don't think we can will it away anymore than we can control our heart rate by wishing it would change. Nor do I think it makes us "slaves", its just a factor. I think both things can be true at the same time, but that's just my opinion. I think there is plenty of room for good faith differences because at the end of the day, we can all buy what makes us happy. Its an interesting discussion, nothing more.
To me, what is destructive to the hobby is when the debate gets personal and insulting, as it usually does, and it happens on both sides. The ego investment that so many make in audio gear is incredible and one reason that many find the hobby (or hobbyists) to be weird and unwelcoming.
To me, what is destructive to the hobby is when the debate gets personal and insulting, as it usually does, and it happens on both sides. The ego investment that so many make in audio gear is incredible and one reason that many find the hobby (or hobbyists) to be weird and unwelcoming.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Hi - I'm not trying to suggest you are a cable denier. And even if you were, that is your right and respect your opinion even if I disagree with it.
My two main points are:
1) people generally as a crux are quick to through out "bias" in nearly every instance of higher end gear (I'm not suggest you personally). To me it's simply them being dismissive of real factors. And again, just because some people are easily manipulated and influenced by factors other than sound, it doesn't mean everyone is (again I'm not suggesting you are saying that).
2) Generally speaking the audio "hate" - and I use that word carefully - comes from the lower end aiming up. There are groups after groups dedicated on Facebook towards attacking and doxing those who post about higher end gear and even call for bodily harm against them (I have personally dealt with this several times). I've yet to see an organized Facebook group of high end folks doing that to lower end gear owners. Just look at the unhinged comments where cable haters literally post wanting harm to come to people with higher end cables. I can't tell you the number of people I've had to block on my YouTube and FB for calling for actual violence. I've never had such a comment on my FB page or YT page from higher end calling for that to lower end people
So while it's fair to say it does happen all around, to try is dismiss it as an equal issue from both side is not a generally accurate portrayal.
As always I enjoy reading your perspective and views and appreciate our ability to have normal adult conversations about it.
I appreciate your perspective. I think there is a lot we don't understand about why we like what we like. At least that's true of me. I agree with you about the audio "hate." I love the music-and the gear-and enjoy learning how to do it better. Sharing ideas with others on this journey is great. On the other hand, I'm amazed at the obsession that many have about how other people spend their money. To me, its all about getting the best experience within the context of your means and priorities.
Yeah, agree. I've gotten to a point now (and I'm not talking big bucks compared to some here) where everything makes a difference. Getting a 'loom' of good wires, adding good feet to everything, switching this or that tube(s) is so obviously noticeable. It's cool and I'm happy, - for now.
- I'll be in touch someday Mike
- I'll be in touch someday Mike
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
You just hit the important point.Yeah, agree. I've gotten to a point now (and I'm not talking big bucks compared to some here) where everything makes a difference. Getting a 'loom' of good wires, adding good feet to everything, switching this or that tube(s) is so obviously noticeable. It's cool and I'm happy, - for now.
- I'll be in touch someday Mike
When you ask to see pics of the systems from the people who claim cable / switches / vibration control are "snake oil", there is almost always 100% similarities in that they:
Own low-fi gear;
Speakers in the corners or up against the wall;
Giant tv right in-between them on the same plane as the speakers;
Running an AV receiver or low-fi gear.
I'm not being judgmental. There is nothing wrong with that set up. I don't own a Ferrari therefore I would never partake in a discussion about what tweaks may or may not make a difference on a Ferrari.
It's the same with this gear - until you reach a level of gear AND PROPER SET UP none of these tweaks will make an audible difference.
The difference is most people who own an Acura like myself don't troll Ferrari groups calling car upgrades snake oil and personally attacking them like the lo-fi crowd does in audio.
Ha. Good analogy, so true.