Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

[Alpinist]

If I was starting from scratch, I might give the Everest/Omega XC a try. But with the money I have invested in AudioQuest Dragon Power Cords, which I absolutely love the sound of, I wouldn’t risk going off the AQ reservation with the Everest Power Conditioner.

Ken

 

[Kingrex]

Serg is lucky. He's done. I'm pretty happy too, but I'm always aware what is improving in the industry and thoughtful about whether it's time to adopt new technology. Things are better today, such as power conditioners. Speaker technology as well as crossovers and cabinetry has come a long way. Class D is starting to shine. Lots is going on. At this time I have some simple Add Power components but they brought a world of improvement to my already excellent foundational power.

 

[TheOctopus]

Serg is lucky. He's done. I'm pretty happy too, but I'm always aware what is improving in the industry and thoughtful about whether it's time to adopt new technology. Things are better today, such as power conditioners. Speaker technology as well as crossovers and cabinetry has come a long way. Class D is starting to shine. Lots is going on. At this time I have some simple Add Power components but they brought a world of improvement to my already excellent foundational power.

There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.
I've honestly lost track and I have tried to stay current over the past 3 decades. About 7 years ago I finally got burned out and actually took a nice, long break from it all with just a pair of headphones. It was very refreshing.
I was in no hurry to get back into it.
I reached out to Mike this time around because he carried components I knew would be comfortable with and built a modest but a pleasant and enjoyable system.
Not chasing lofty goals, not looking for that elusive concept of nirvana. There is no best in this highly subjective hobby with no standards or gauges to measure your success or failure by except your own ears. My ears are happy with what I have now just as they were before. If you enjoy your system for hours at a time, mission accomplished. Great sound does not disappear from your system because a new speaker appeared at the dealer.

 

[Kingrex]

There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?

 

[TheOctopus]

There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?

What? No. I’m saying the world can’t stand still but if one is happy, there is no need trying to chase it.

 

[Kingrex]

What? No. I’m saying the world can’t stand still but if one is happy, there is no need trying to chase it.

Well put

 

[UltraFast69]

Re: Anyone dumping their power conditioner?

Power into your home and subsequently into your system is what you want to keep your eye on and ear to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[W9TR]

I have tried regeneration and isolation transformers. The regeneration was a bust, the isolation transformer made some things better and some worse.

More recently I have taken a more scientific approach using commercial off the shelf power line filters from Corcom and putting them in the power feeds of my gear. I measured the before/after noise using my Audio Precision System 222 up to 500 kHz and a software defined radio from 500 kHz to 10 MHz. Bottom line - they work very well keeping all the trash generated by my digital front end off of the power line. Also I have created a separate ground buss that is connected to earth through a 7 Hy inductor. That has helped as well. I am still experimenting with this.

I am lucky in that our utilities to the house are on a single transformer I don’t share with the neighbors.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i've been done with any sort of power conditioning since i installed my 'big boy' 10WQ Equi=tech 10kva balanced isolation transformer wall panel system back in 2011.

Wall Cabinet Systems | Equitech

i run my whole system on that. i also have 'dirty' power outlets next to my 'clean' power outlets in my room so it's easy to always be able to compare balanced regenerated power with straight through power grid power. so far; 100% of the time it's no contest.

i do strongly believe that power grids and solutions are not one size fits all. i happen to live in a newer housing community with modern lines and equipment, my room is in a barn, which is a separate building from my home. my home does have it's own transformer. i'm away from the city in the mountains on acreage, away from power grid polluting industry. my power comes from hydro sources and my location is relatively close to the power grid source.

even with all those advantages (or possibly because of them), my Equi=tech made a significant improvement in lower noise, increased dynamics and increased refinement and ease. and it replaced a dedicated 70 amp line and panel already installed.

would my Equi=tech be equally effective everywhere? no clue.

i've had manufacturers bring their gear to my room claiming that their gear would not be helped with my Equi=tech. so we did a quick A/B. not hard to hear the advantage of the Equi=tech. interestingly, one of those events happens to be my local friend Ted Smith.......who designs the dac for PS Audio (Paul McGowan), brought his dac design over a few years back to hear in my system.

here is Paul, mentioning Ted.

Listening is scary | PS Audio

 

[mep]

There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?

He never said anything remotely close to your question.

 

[Kingrex]

I have tried regeneration and isolation transformers. The regeneration was a bust, the isolation transformer made some things better and some worse.

More recently I have taken a more scientific approach using commercial off the shelf power line filters from Corcom and putting them in the power feeds of my gear. I measured the before/after noise using my Audio Precision System 222 up to 500 kHz and a software defined radio from 500 kHz to 10 MHz. Bottom line - they work very well keeping all the trash generated by my digital front end off of the power line. Also I have created a separate ground buss that is connected to earth through a 7 Hy inductor. That has helped as well. I am still experimenting with this.

I am lucky in that our utilities to the house are on a single transformer I don’t share with the neighbors.

2 questions.
Why would an off the shelf filter work better than a purpose build one by a company dedicated to power quality. I have done the same. They absolutely block noise. And a whole lot of music. Your TV probably looks amazing.

Second, are you floating a ground out in the yard so that a line to ground fault will never clear and leave 120 volts in your earth. Please say no. If you are, remove it. Or build a ground fault sensor into the line connected to a normally closed contact that will shut and positively bolt the ground to the service bus ground as soon as any leak from the hot is going to some place other than the neutral.

 

[UltraFast69]

i've been done with any sort of power conditioning since i installed my 'big boy' 10WQ Equi=tech 10kva balanced isolation transformer wall panel system back in 2011.

Wall Cabinet Systems | Equitech

i run my whole system on that. i also have 'dirty' power outlets next to my 'clean' power outlets in my room so it's easy to always be able to compare balanced regenerated power with straight through power grid power. so far; 100% of the time it's no contest.

i do strongly believe that power grids and solutions are not one size fits all. i happen to live in a newer housing community with modern lines and equipment, my room is in a barn, which is a separate building from my home. my home does have it's own transformer. i'm away from the city in the mountains on acreage, away from power grid polluting industry. my power comes from hydro sources and my location is relatively close to the power grid source.

even with all those advantages (or possibly because of them), my Equi=tech made a significant improvement in lower noise, increased dynamics and increased refinement and ease. and it replaced a dedicated 70 amp line and panel already installed.

would my Equi=tech be equally effective everywhere? no clue.

i've had manufacturers bring their gear to my room claiming that their gear would not be helped with my Equi=tech. so we did a quick A/B. not hard to hear the advantage of the Equi=tech. interestingly, one of those events happens to be my local friend Ted Smith.......who designs the dac for PS Audio (Paul McGowan), brought his dac design over a few years back to hear in my system.

here is Paul, mentioning Ted.

Listening is scary | PS Audio

What made you think an Equi=Tech was needed or you had good power for all that you stated?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[mep]

2 questions.
Why would an off the shelf filter work better than a purpose build one by a company dedicated to power quality. I have done the same. They absolutely block noise. And a whole lot of music. Your TV probably looks amazing.

"Off the shelf" filters are purpose built and dedicated to power quality. Corcom products are sold by Digikey.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What made you think an Equi=Tech was needed or you had good power for all that you stated?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

the acoustical designer for my room build back in 2004, Chris Huston, designed mastering and recording studios and he had specd the Equi=tech for a number of them. also; my dear departed friend, Winston Ma, lived near me in my last home in Redmond, and he specd the Equi=tech for his remarkable room.

then i did my own research and what i found was positive.

i could not afford to include the Equi=tech in my original build budget, but did have my spot and wiring set up so i could add it later; and finally in 2011 i did have it installed. which did allow me 7 years to listen without it, and then to add it and so the effect was easy to hear.

there are alternatives similar to the Equi=tech that are also good. but to me the issue is comparing stand alone 'small box' conditioners that plug into your 120v outlets, to whole system wired in regenerators. my Equi=tech weighs 400 pounds and is built into a wall.

 

[W9TR]

2 questions.
Why would an off the shelf filter work better than a purpose build one by a company dedicated to power quality. I have done the same. They absolutely block noise. And a whole lot of music. Your TV probably looks amazing.

Second, are you floating a ground out in the yard so that a line to ground fault will never clear and leave 120 volts in your earth. Please say no. If you are, remove it. Or build a ground fault sensor into the line connected to a normally closed contact that will shut and positively bolt the ground to the service bus ground as soon as any leak from the hot is going to some place other than the neutral.

1. I am using purpose built filters designed by power conditioning experts who have been doing this long before any audiophile products were being offered. I use Corcom and Schurter filters. They have had nothing but a positive impact - no issues with them blocking any audio goodness.

2. Absolutely not. I am doing what Audioquest is doing in some of their Niagara conditioners - adding a large inductor from house earth to 'equipment earth' to keep all the emi that typically gets dumped on the house earth away from the gear. This inductor is rated to handle the fault current and I have tested it multiple times.

This didn't used to be a problem at all, when everything was analog. Now that we have digital in the mix the game has changed dramatically. This has been a fun project that has created a far better digital front end than I had before.

 

[TheOctopus]

A question for the "thinking man".

If say a power cord could somehow change what is going on inside an electronic box such as your amp, preamp, DAC, etc. How would laboratories and government agencies such as NMI and NIST would get around that? How would any of the world's most precise instruments be trusted if a power cord could change the results?

Don't tell me about shielding and electromagnetic radiation please, the shielded cords are used in the industrial applications. Audiophiles did not invent them.

Read this article and just think about the accuracy of the world's most precise instruments. Team improves the world's most accurate instrument for resistance measurement

If someone is running the most precise equipment that measures radiation doses in cancer treatment and decided to plug in a Ching Cheng power cord vs (insert your favorite) and the results are different... How does that scenario even fit into an audiophile's thinking cap?

If you are going to respond we don't need measurements, trust your ears or get a better system, I can easily respond, trust your eyes, the earth is flat and get a better zoom camera, the earth really is flat...

Let me know your thoughts. After reading the article, if you care to.

 

[Kingrex]

1.

2. Absolutely not. adding a large inductor from house earth to 'equipment earth' to keep all the emi that typically gets dumped on the house earth away from the gear. This inductor is rated to handle the fault current and I have tested it multiple times.

What is house earth and equipment earth. I get so nervous when audiophile think they are doing something for sound and severely violate the NEC negating life and property safety. There is only 1 ground at your premise. Everything has to attach to it. If you want to choke a branch circuit with a UL listed device, that is ok.

Environmental Potentials also makes a choke to put on branch circuit grounds. But it is all part of one common grounding system.

 

[W9TR]

That’s what I’m doing - adding a choke to the ground of a branch circuit. No NEC violation that I’m aware of.

Here is the patent which shows a number of embodiments - one of which is used in the Audioquest Niagara power conditioners.

US8988168B2

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A question for the "thinking man".

If say a power cord could somehow change what is going on inside an electronic box such as your amp, preamp, DAC, etc. How would laboratories and government agencies such as NMI and NIST would get around that? How would any of the world's most precise instruments be trusted if a power cord could change the results?

Don't tell me about shielding and electromagnetic radiation please, the shielded cords are used in the industrial applications. Audiophiles did not invent them.

Read this article and just think about the accuracy of the world's most precise instruments. Team improves the world's most accurate instrument for resistance measurement

If someone is running the most precise equipment that measures radiation doses in cancer treatment and decided to plug in a Ching Cheng power cord vs (insert your favorite) and the results are different... How does that scenario even fit into an audiophile's thinking cap?

If you are going to respond we don't need measurements, trust your ears or get a better system, I can easily respond, trust your eyes, the earth is flat and get a better zoom camera, the earth really is flat...

Let me know your thoughts. After reading the article, if you care to.

i see no conflict between the value of measurements and the value of our hearing.

measurements tell us about numbers, but cannot determine music reproduction preferences. numbers cannot determine levels of musical expressiveness. numbers cannot define musical refinement. hifi related power grid products have to be technically successful and sound good too.

the numbers do help us to improve the technical performance of gear; then final design decisions involve listening. at least for the gear i own.

even race cars and lap times involve human interaction as the final component. who would even care about a race between machines.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

1.

2. Absolutely not. adding a large inductor from house earth to 'equipment earth' to keep all the emi that typically gets dumped on the house earth away from the gear. This inductor is rated to handle the fault current and I have tested it multiple times.

What is house earth and equipment earth. I get so nervous when audiophile think they are doing something for sound and severely violate the NEC negating life and property safety. There is only 1 ground at your premise. Everything has to attach to it. If you want to choke a branch circuit with a UL listed device, that is ok.

Environmental Potentials also makes a choke to put on branch circuit grounds. But it is all part of one common grounding system.

i do have a separate ground rod for my barn Equi=tech 10WQ isolation transformer. but it is a separate building 75 feet away from my home. my Electrical Contractor who did the install said it was proper code since it was a separate building. the regular 'dirty power' 100 amp panel in my barn for lights and HVAC does not have a separate ground rod.