Randy Myers
Well-known member
Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I do not think I saw anyone questioning anyone else's ears here
.BTW- I play on a different level but I am happy with my Niagara 1000.
Anyone dumping their power conditiner?
- Thread starter TheOctopus
- Start date
Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I do not think I saw anyone questioning anyone else's ears here
.BTW- I play on a different level but I am happy with my Niagara 1000.
2fastdriving
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mep
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Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I do not think I saw anyone questioning anyone else's ears here
BTW- I play on a different level but I am happy with my Niagara 1000.
Did you miss this:
“I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears”
Randy Myers
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BlueFox
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mep
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Why did you leave the Smiley () off of the quote? Your misquote changes the context, and makes it different than what was written and intended.
Smiley faces can have double meanings too Bud. Just because you put a smiley face on words you used doesn't mean you don't believe what you just wrote.
Mike
PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.
Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.
Anyone else have experience with both?
Eric
Puma Cat
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Puma Cat
Well-known member
Everest 8000 has a 30 Amp current limit. No heat and no buzz.
Hi Eric,
You have a wonderful system, top of the line all the way. Are you satisfied with your P20? If so, then why consider changing?
Best,
Ken
Ken
This is truly an insightful question and goes to the root cause of our (my) disease. I alway wonder if the system could be better..whether I'm satisfied (which I am) or not.
Eric
Puma Cat
Well-known member
I haven't heard a P20, but I know that the owner of another large audio forum had all PS Audio P20s in all his systems, and replaced virtually all of them with Denali V2s because he said they were clearly superior.
And...many members in that forum that also had P10s and P20s and they also sold them, and replaced them with Denalis and Everest power distributors, and they're really happy with them.
The Denali V2 is a superb PD; Everest is on another level altogether.
The subs are no problem. The amps can plug into the 8000 too and we should try direct into the wall if possible. I think the 8000/XC is outstanding and really releases the music.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
2fastdriving
New member
I don't but I replaced my P10 with the Denali 6000s V2. There was no comparison, the Shunyata put my system on steroids. Everything was better: resolution, sound stage, bass, transients, everything. I am scared to try the Everest, but i am sure it will be in my future.
The Ansuz Mainz 8 DTC power distributor I put in my system in 2019 greatly improved the sound dynamics and articulation. Ansuz offers four price levels of these power distributors: Mainz 8 A2, C2, D2, DTC.
Ansuz dislikes power conditioners based on transformers, capacitors, and inductors. Instead of filtering AC, their open coils attenuate the peaks of transients atop the 50/60Hz wave to soften the HF spikes and change the shape of the noise. A transient in a coil creates a current which the counter-rotating coil cancels.
D2 Mainz8 & Mainz loom
Ansuz dislikes power conditioners based on transformers, capacitors, and inductors. Instead of filtering AC, their open coils attenuate the peaks of transients atop the 50/60Hz wave to soften the HF spikes and change the shape of the noise. A transient in a coil creates a current which the counter-rotating coil cancels.
D2 Mainz8 & Mainz loom
TheOctopus
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Back in the day, I've often fussed over power conditioners. Isolation transformer types, passive, active, active with battery packs for better transient response, power regenerator types... I've read all about the theories, the power correction factors, the stored potential and collapsing fields in big transformers inducing "juice" back into the circuits as the transients would "sag" the power lines... Bologna! 
Never once did I find the AC to be so bad as to actually hear much of a difference. In the house where I ran dedicated 20 amp circuits for the dedicated listening/theater room with 7.2 and tons of amps and monstrous subs, I also could not hear any difference but still kept them around.
I still use them to this day but it is a very simple, well built unit from a manufacturer who designs and sells many of highest quality toroidal transformers to other "players" in the field. It offers protection and isolates from noise. That's all. I still do not hear a difference between IT and straight to the wall with my humble Luxman and Harbeth. I guess I need a better system and better ears as it is popular to point out among the audiophiles. But I am just a 30 plus year scholar of audio and music appreciation. I have much to learn evidently :scholar:
Never once did I find the AC to be so bad as to actually hear much of a difference. In the house where I ran dedicated 20 amp circuits for the dedicated listening/theater room with 7.2 and tons of amps and monstrous subs, I also could not hear any difference but still kept them around.
I still use them to this day but it is a very simple, well built unit from a manufacturer who designs and sells many of highest quality toroidal transformers to other "players" in the field. It offers protection and isolates from noise. That's all. I still do not hear a difference between IT and straight to the wall with my humble Luxman and Harbeth. I guess I need a better system and better ears as it is popular to point out among the audiophiles. But I am just a 30 plus year scholar of audio and music appreciation. I have much to learn evidently :scholar:
Kingrex
Active member
Back in the day was a time when Power Conditioners did a lot of harm. There is some cutting edge technology that has come about recently with Shunyata, Add Power Nordost and Ansuz.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Back in the day, I've often fussed over power conditioners. Isolation transformer types, passive, active, active with battery packs for better transient response, power regenerator types... I've read all about the theories, the power correction factors, the stored potential and collapsing fields in big transformers inducing "juice" back into the circuits as the transients would "sag" the power lines... Bologna!
Never once did I find the AC to be so bad as to actually hear much of a difference. In the house where I ran dedicated 20 amp circuits for the dedicated listening/theater room with 7.2 and tons of amps and monstrous subs, I also could not hear any difference but still kept them around.
I still use them to this day but it is a very simple, well built unit from a manufacturer who designs and sells many of highest quality toroidal transformers to other "players" in the field. It offers protection and isolates from noise. That's all. I still do not hear a difference between IT and straight to the wall with my humble Luxman and Harbeth. I guess I need a better system and better ears as it is popular to point out among the audiophiles. But I am just a 30 plus year scholar of audio and music appreciation. I have much to learn evidently :scholar:
We should never be done learning...
While some noise comes from AC Mains (you can watch this video of the AM radio on mine:Shunyata Research Venom 14 Digital power cord demonstration - YouTube ), a large proportion of the noise in our systems comes from the components themselves: from the full wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of our components, most notably the power amps.
From an article Caelin wrote some years back:
"Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”
Kingrex
Active member
A big reason why I tell everyone to put their amps on a separate branch circuit. Even better monoblocks on their own circuit. And yet I still get told 1 circuit is best.
TheOctopus
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That all sounds great and I enjoy reading white papers that contradict other white papers from others, etc.. It all makes for very entertaining discussions. Keeping in mind that precision instruments capable of reaching -130dB of noise floor, (way beyond our hearing limits) accurately and beyond are not plugged into a power conditioner... and are relying on the same rectification as our audio gear for the most part.
I find amusing and entertaining as various manufacturers are always pointing out flaws in other designs in the obvious wrestling match for your buck.
I do not and have not experienced slurred or blurred transients, not in my D'Agostino amps which I did not run on power conditioners and not on my tube amp today. The sharpness and my system's transient response of Niels Lofgren's guitar chords are as lightning fast as they were in my previous systems, with and without power conditioners.
My lights do not dim with each kick of the kick drum on Rush's La Villa Strangiato (arguably number 1 drum rock performance) and they never did with any system. The 1800 or 2400 watts of power available from a household outlet in either 15 or 20 amp variety was always more than any of my amps could draw, even transiently.
I personally do not have anything against them. If you believe, see, hear, feel, taste, smell, something with (insert your favorite here) then so be it. I think in the end it buys a peace of mind that you have added another expensive component to ensure maximum performance from your investment into other components.
For me, it is much simpler. I use a Balanced power conditioner that offers high efficiency, toroidal, (not EI) isolation transformer. It does not shunt voltage spikes to ground but absorbs it and provides surge suppression that is resettable. All the grunge if it ever existed and would get filtered out by the power supply anyways, will stop right there at this point.
But more importantly, it is useful because it is Balanced and offers Under Voltage Protection (brown outs) and Over Voltage Protection.
As far as Balanced： It is of the CMR philosophy. Since balanced power, the voltages are of opposite polarity, given that most interference in a typical AC line
is common between the two lines, the noise in the lines is eliminated when the two lines are added together. This is effectively known as
Common Mode Rejection (CMR).
What else may exist beyond this very affordable and solidly engineered product by a company that supplies virtually the whole world with their products, is the rarified air that I will never breathe because I just don't find anything lacking in my system with or without it or any other expensive passive or active conditioner or even a regenerator. Neither my amps nor my AC circuits are complaining. My ears do not disagree either.