Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

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AJ Soundfield said:
I telegraphed this guy after his email came up as undeliverable:

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Crap , i thought Nyquist told you ....
 
a.wayne said:
Thanks for this detailed response and its pretty obvious your digital smokes your analog in your current setup , my only disagreement is you keep throwing in cost, your digital beats your analog not because of cost, as your analog budget is good enough to match or best your digital imo, more comparisons and a few merry go round purchases maybe necessary to get you sorted ..

just recently a friend brought over his new phonostage he was raving over to compare, its on ebay now.


Unfortunately this is how it is ..


Regards ,
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Not being defensive with this question, just asking. What analog chain will give amazing results for $9K complete. Table, arm, cartridge, phono stage and cable. I will even give you $15K list since that is my digital list. I just usually try and find a show demo or a return for upgrade unit to save $. That is why I am out more around $9K. Thanks.
 
Kingrex said:
Not being defensive with this question, just asking. What analog chain will give amazing results for $9K complete. Table, arm, cartridge, phono stage and cable. I will even give you $15K list since that is my digital list. I just usually try and find a show demo or a return for upgrade unit to save $. That is why I am out more around $9K. Thanks.
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VPI Prime - $4k
Ortofon Cadenza Black - $2600
Manley Chinook - $2k
Furutech Phono Cables - $400


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike said:
VPI Prime - $4k
Ortofon Cadenza Black - $2600
Manley Chinook - $2k
Furutech Phono Cables - $400


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What is the block in My vinyl? Phono stage? Allnic is suppose to be pretty good. Chinook has a lot of features, not sure it has more fidelity. Little brother to the Steelhead as is mine to the 5000 series. Cartridge is probably better. VPI is nice. I though you would say a Techniques Mark 2 or Lenco.

Of course, its all back to the give it a try and if it does not perform?????

If I want to expend more cash on Vinyl I would probably take Joe Pitman up on lacing a new single strand of high quality tone arm wire from the cartridge tags to the phono stage. I find removing connections always improves sonics.
 
Kingrex said:
I think the reason Mike L can say some people may want the clarity and gravitate towards digital is because they have a system such as mine. Mike gets the clarity, dynamics etc with his vinyl setup. Its wonderful.
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I want to distinguish between the word and concept of clarity, and the word and concept of clean.

when I suggested that some might 'prefer' the 'clean' presentation of the most perfect digital............

Mike Lavigne said:
the MSB Select II and the other optimizations of my digital performance do break thru prior performance ceilings quite dramatically, and it does go places no previous digital has gone. and, I suppose, depending on one's sonic priorities, if someone valued 'clean' over content, then I can see where they might move digital equal or ahead of analog. but connection to the musical event is what analog does best.
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.............to analog, I was absolutely not inferring that digital has equal or superior 'clarity' to analog.

clean means missing the 'dirt' or 'imperfections'......but it is not suggesting 'complete'.....or more properly 'as complete'.

clarity means it's all revealed......it's complete.

an analogy.....if you will allow.

imagine a squeaky clean mirror, broken into a million pieces, and then glued back together. it's clean.....but not 'quite' complete. there is missing data where the tiny glue lines are.

now imagine a mirror that is slightly dirty, maybe a dust particle or little film here or there. it's complete with something added.

to my ears complete is preferred. but clean is good. and some, but not all, mirrors are clean and complete. potentially complete analog is my reference and standard. I'm not suggesting everyone would agree with my perspective. it's just how things look/sound, to my ears.......in my system, after my efforts to optimize all the formats. YMMV
 
Kingrex said:
What is the block in My vinyl? Phono stage? Allnic is suppose to be pretty good. Chinook has a lot of features, not sure it has more fidelity. Little brother to the Steelhead as is mine to the 5000 series. Cartridge is probably better. VPI is nice. I though you would say a Techniques Mark 2 or Lenco.

Of course, its all back to the give it a try and if it does not perform?????

If I want to expend more cash on Vinyl I would probably take Joe Pitman up on lacing a new single strand of high quality tone arm wire from the cartridge tags to the phono stage. I find removing connections always improves sonics.
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May be nothing more than your combination, your table is DIY , so no way for any of us to suggest issues, Vinyl is not plug and play , it’s work , good Lp’s well cleaned before each play, constant chks and balances ...

BTW , What model Allnic ...?


regards
 
Al M. said:
Seems like I am an equal offender to both some vinyl and some digital aficionados on this thread. So be it. I am only interested in the sonic truth.
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Not an exactly because u always qualify/reference/refer to the price as a consideration which in itself is OK but it's obvious that's a factor in your determination of a component's merit........
 
Kingrex said:
Not being defensive with this question, just asking. What analog chain will give amazing results for $9K complete. Table, arm, cartridge, phono stage and cable. I will even give you $15K list since that is my digital list. I just usually try and find a show demo or a return for upgrade unit to save $. That is why I am out more around $9K. Thanks.
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Ok see you have model listed in your sig, did you try replacing or rolling tubes..?
 
Kingrex said:
What is the block in My vinyl? Phono stage? Allnic is suppose to be pretty good. Chinook has a lot of features, not sure it has more fidelity. Little brother to the Steelhead as is mine to the 5000 series. Cartridge is probably better. VPI is nice. I though you would say a Techniques Mark 2 or Lenco.

Of course, its all back to the give it a try and if it does not perform?????

If I want to expend more cash on Vinyl I would probably take Joe Pitman up on lacing a new single strand of high quality tone arm wire from the cartridge tags to the phono stage. I find removing connections always improves sonics.
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Review describes the same issues you have with your Analog rig , apparently Phono stage sig

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/allnic_h_1201.htm
 
Kingsrule said:
Not an exactly because u always qualify/reference/refer to the price as a consideration which in itself is OK but it's obvious that's a factor in your determination of a component's merit........
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Nope, not when it comes to absolute merit. See post # 84 on thread page 9, sentence about the "very best digital".
 
K, I will give this. I don't have proper vinyl to compare to digital. I have a bastard that may be somewhat ugly. It really does suck to realize I'm that guy. You know, the one who says vinyl is better than digital because he never owned good digital. Just the other way around. I guess I have to face I have never owned good vinyl. What I can say, in listening to quite a few systems in the $300k + range, every time I come home, I really like what I hear from mine. Digital side that is. I just find it very musical and relaxing. I can listen intently, or just read a book and feel totally comfortable. I am satisfied, but still looking to better. Owe brother. Because the vinyl is not easy, and old records are hard to find in good condition, and new ones are as expensive as a month of Tidal, I will most likely let the analog languish and continue to better the digital. I have a lot of tubes and I like how the digital adds jump and clarity. It's pretty darn nice, but you know salesmen, the guy who sold me my RT really likes the Rockna. It is an R2R ladder using the MSB board. I'm not sure how it is better, but every time Alrainbow told me to do something with my server, it got better and better. Because of that, I keep saying on my threads it's a cumulative process with digital to makes it great, so at some point I will make a move on a new DAC. That will be my biggest front end move. At some time I may also try a SS amp. Didn't someone say we need to have a discussion over which is better, SS or Tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
a.wayne said:
What is good digital , how do you know when you have it ..?
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compared to what? or is the question "when is digital good enough?"

objectively, good digital can be youtube on your I-phone. the term 'good' is impossibly vague and totally relative.

subjectively in hifi there are many shades of good digital. all depends on your context. there are $500-$2000 dacs that sound very good....even great. and $10k-$20k dacs that sound quite a bit better, and then $$$$$ dacs that sound quite a bit better. what sandbox are you playing in?

and there are so many ways to optimize digital that those can be separators too.

you could view it as 'good' digital can be similar to your vinyl'; but then how is your vinyl?
 
I read that $9k is not enough to get good vinyl and I think to myself, "is our hobby over pricing itself out of existence". I mean, seriously, how many people out there can truly pay $300k, or $100k, or honestly, even $50k for their audio system?

In our audio club we have maybe one system at that level.... even the writer for Stereophile does not approach those levels...

I think my wife and I do fairly well... yet those levels are not even in the realm of discussion, nor would I want them to be. Many club members consider my setup to be very nice... I am totally happy with it, and yes I believe I have fine tuned my digital (thank you for all the help Mr. Mike!)...

It begins with software and putting together a computer/server that can handle it.... in my case Roon and HQPlayer.... cabling (I settled on the AQ Coffee's after my friend bought the Diamonds and sold me the Coffee's).... a reclocker (W4S Recovery), more cabling (another Coffee), DAC that can do justice to HQPlayer (T+A which can convert 24.6MHz!!!).... more cabling (AQ Earth XLR)... at retail.... about $2500 for server, $500 and $160 for software, cabling at $630 and $1000, $4200 DAC.... so $9k for digital and I consider it world class... maybe my ears are not good enough to appreciate any higher.... :D...
 
I put together a really nice vinyl rig for $9k above. I’m sure there are many other combinations of various turntables and cartridges and phonostages one could come up with for $9k.

The fact remains that digital is just getting better and better. It’s not just the chips, it’s that designers now know the importance of a proper analog output stage (instead of op amps), clocking, power supply, etc. Network integration into DAC’s is also another step we are seeing.
 
Randy Myers said:
maybe my ears are not good enough to appreciate any higher....
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The folks claiming objective metrics like price = sound quality aren't using their ears.
They are the ones that fear using their ears the most. They trust their eyes, price tags, street cred, etc.. Lets be very very clear here. There is nothing "subjective" about price. Good luck telling a seller that "subjectively", the price of the $100k TT per you is $2k. See how that flies.:)
If you want to know why there are almost zero young folks coming in to the hobby like we did at that age and audio events look like freaking Century Village snobby grumps, look no further. Or just go into the million dollar rooms and hear totally shit sound compared to the room 2 floors down that has a $20k system that blows it away.
My 2c

cheers,

AJ
 
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