AC Power Cable "Break-In"

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Mikado463 said:
Grant, I've got to ask…….. what is there within a CD player that takes up to three hours to 'settle in' ?
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Companies that make Digital products such as Bel Canto and DCS have long advocated warm-up of the DAC/CD/Clock devices. John Stronzer of Bel Canto or David Steven of DCS could explain it some detail, but in general it has to do with the DAC's stabilizing after having been off for any length of time.

With Tube amps, the guys at ARC, VAC, LAMM, Atmasphere, VTL and others would explain thermal issues and tubes coming to balance. Any number of solid-state electronics engineers have explained why the warm-up of their transformers for several hours is important before critical listening.

Each category of product may have different issues that lead to needing "on-time" of some variation from an hour to several hours to sound their best (some advocate longer), but they all agree that warm up after being off is important. For cables break-in/warm-up is not nearly as well understood, so controversy usually follows such discussions on the internet. That's why I'm not sure its a great idea to import and post cable "break-in" posts from other forums without any context. It tends to invite argument, off topic comments and incivility from my experience.

I apologize if I could not fully explain the technical reason CDP's require some play time after being off, but I'm sure if you reached out to any competent digital engineer in our field they'd tell you more than you wanted to know… They've done that with me and of course, um, I didn't retain that information… :)

Grant
 
GrantS said:
... Within our range, probably the Digital cables take the longest due to the signal type.

... Interconnects are probably the fastest to break in, but in all a good rule of thumb is 5-6 days of heavy use for cables,
a little more for the digital cables or particularly heavy gauge cables.

Regards,

Grant
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And I bet it's different between a digital Coaxial, Optical, Optical Glass, BNC, AES/EBU, USB, and a digital HDMI cable?
 
GrantS said:
... For cables break-in/warm-up is not nearly as well understood, so controversy usually follows such discussions on the internet. That's why I'm not sure its a great idea to import and post cable "break-in" posts from other forums without any context. It tends to invite argument, off topic comments and incivility from my experience.

...

Grant
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I see, and I agree (not in all circumstances though; it depends). I couldn't assume that all members here would read only that single post, when I also indicated to check other posts from the next page (ten of them).
...And when people are truly interested in an audio subject it is well conceivable and probable that they'll get into the heart of the matter, by reading some more, for the full context, as you just said.

My intention was of positiveness and educational information, genuinely well intended.
And I appreciate what you just said above because that's going to help me at improving my posting sometimes. :)
 
GrantS said:
Companies that make Digital products such as Bel Canto and DCS have long advocated warm-up of the DAC/CD/Clock devices. John Stronzer of Bel Canto or David Steven of DCS could explain it some detail, but in general it has to do with the DAC's stabilizing after having been off for any length of time.
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Ok, perhaps, but multiples of hours I can't buy into.



With Tube amps, the guys at ARC, VAC, LAMM, Atmasphere, VTL and others would explain thermal issues and tubes coming to balance.
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Now this is completely understood and accepted

Any number of solid-state electronics engineers have explained why the warm-up of their transformers for several hours is important before critical listening.
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Again, understanding the stabilization aspect aside, I'm willing to wager that when the phrase 'critical listening' is used in our audiophile world that a large percentage of those folks are more concerned with their equipment than the actual music. Grant, my rebuttal is not a 'flame' against you rather a reaction / observation and understanding of a life long love evolvement in music and it's enjoyable reproduction.

keep your contributions coming…….it's all good ! :)
 
Yes Grant, please post any thought and audio experiences you feel to share with us; we don't bite, or our bite is very friendly, always. :)

I started this thread mainly because I love everything I'm reading from Caelin, and owner's comments of Shunyata Research's products.
It has a 'sound' value/solidity to it all. ...The support you guys bring to your products are essential to us for getting the full benefits.
 
NorthStar said:
I have two questions:

1. What is going on within the power cord that is producing the beneficial sound effect from "break-in"?

2. Why do cables sound different when touching carpets or curtains?
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Bob, do you believe in psychoacoustics ?
 
NorthStar said:
I have two questions:

1. What is going on within the power cord that is producing the beneficial sound effect from "break-in"?

2. Why do cables sound different when touching carpets or curtains?
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One of my favorite comedy movies is Captain Ron, with Kurt Russell and Martin Short. In one scene Captain Ron (Kurt Russell) is starting the Diesel engine, and he says 'Diesels go thru oil like a sailor goes thru rum.' At this, Martin Short replies, 'Yes. Why is that Captain Ron?' And Captain Ron says, "Nobody knows."

That is the answer to your questions.
 
Mikado463 said:
Bob, do you believe in psychoacoustics ?
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Yes. --- Psychoacoustics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BlueFox said:
One of my favorite comedy movies is Captain Ron, with Kurt Russell and Martin Short. In one scene Captain Ron (Kurt Russell) is starting the Diesel engine, and he says 'Diesels go thru oil like a sailor goes thru rum.' At this, Martin Short replies, 'Yes. Why is that Captain Ron?' And Captain Ron says, "Nobody knows."

That is the answer to your questions.
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Actually the answer of question #1 can be found in post #1.

As for question #2, I just don't know, yet. :)
 
NorthStar said:
I have two questions:

1. What is going on within the power cord that is producing the beneficial sound effect from "break-in"?

2. Why do cables sound different when touching carpets or curtains?
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As I stated before, I don't feel belaboring topics like these is great idea here, or in most forums on the internet. If you have great personal interest in these topics, you are always free to contact us directly, or read Caelin's published patents, one of which goes into some detail on question #2.

The answer to the first question was included in the original post you imported, so not sure why you are repeating it.

The answer to your second post can be found in our published patent for the DFE products. I have used some of the information from our web to answer your question.

It is generally accepted that a field of static energy exists along carpeted floors and other household furnishings (Draperies, Furniture etc). Electrical and signal carrying wire also radiates a field of its own energy; for power cords this would be an EM field. Over a period of time a static differential can build-up. This differential can become enormous -- sometimes exceeding tens of thousands of volts. When an electrical signal is sent through the cable, the signal can become distorted or inter-modulated by the static electrical field differential between the cable and floor. This effect is similar to sending an electrical signal through a wire that passes through a powerful magnetic field. The distortion that results is quite audible with any quality entertainment system.

If you have further interest, I suggest sending us an e-mail or call our factory number.

Thank you.

Grant
Shunyata Research
 
I don't think we can measure everything we can hear. Maybe in 20 or 50 years. Who knows? I know that sounds odd, but there are things we just can't explain or measure, but we can hear the difference. Some may argue placebo affect.
 
Thank you Grant. What are some effective ways to minimize static differential?
 
GrantS said:
As I stated before, I don't feel belaboring topics like these is great idea here, or in most forums on the internet. If you have great personal interest in these topics, you are always free to contact us directly, or read Caelin's published patents, one of which goes into some detail on question #2.
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I respectfully disagree with you Grant. Having open discussions on audio forums about cables is good for the brain, good for the information, good for the education.

The answer to the first question was included in the original post you imported, so not sure why you are repeating it.
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And yet you made a remark before regarding that ditto post of mine. ...And that exact same reference link was used by Caelin Gabriel himself.

The answer to your second post can be found in our published patent for the DFE products. I have used some of the information from our web to answer your question.



It is generally accepted that a field of static energy exists along carpeted floors and other household furnishings (Draperies, Furniture etc). Electrical and signal carrying wire also radiates a field of its own energy; for power cords this would be an EM field. Over a period of time a static differential can build-up. This differential can become enormous -- sometimes exceeding tens of thousands of volts. When an electrical signal is sent through the cable, the signal can become distorted or inter-modulated by the static electrical field differential between the cable and floor. This effect is similar to sending an electrical signal through a wire that passes through a powerful magnetic field. The distortion that results is quite audible with any quality entertainment system.

If you have further interest, I suggest sending us an e-mail or call our factory number.

Thank you.

Grant
Shunyata Research
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Thank you.

* Open public audio forums are a great place to get educated.
That is one of the reasons we're here, just like you are here and that we're having a discussion.

P.S. I'm glad Grant that you took my questions seriously, because they both were.
Not everyone can see the way you see and hear and read.
 
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