AC Power Cable "Break-In"

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Oh absolutely, I wasn't invited! :P

No, there was no mistake committed. Perhaps Roxie's ultra high end SET amp draws power differently than Angie's ultra high end SS amp. They will have a fun time listening to music and perhaps in a few days time Angie calls Roxy up to tell her that her system has never sounded better.

The End.
 
Was there a question or comment associated, or just throwing it up for fun? If there's a legit question that can be answered, we've been consistent in answering them on other forums and would do the same here if its a reasoned, genuine question.

Caelin covered the technical angle of power cord break in from his point of view because it had become a common topic on the forums he posted it to --and his opinion was requested by the OP. There are those that have genuine curiosity about the topic and of course, others who believe it's all part of a larger myth of power cables affecting performance at all. Posting a naked link here is a little like chumming for sharks from the looks of it.. :)

Frankly, outside of the internet forums, which draw opinion from all over-- even from those that won't be bothered to try an aftermarket power cord, there is no break-in debate. It is not a subtle enough phenomenon that it could be confused with mood, unfamiliarity ("getting to know you") or the senses being fooled. If a system is well calibrated for 2-ch listening, the arc of most custom-designed power cord's performance over the first five days is dramatic and consistent to each product.

Those who were not aware of the degree of these effects have been calling me for the better part of 14 years. The descriptive comments based on the days of use are so similar that I no longer need them to describe whatever they are hearing. They just need to tell me how many days (hours of use) they have with the product and I can accurately describe the general sound characteristics of that stage. Either I'm clairvoyant (which I'm definitely not), or there are consistent, easy to identify similarities in how a specific model power cord (of ours) will sound on each day after it is brought home and used.

Obviously, each class and type of product will have their own unique burn-in cycle, but the associated characteristics of a cable's performance as it changes over a specific time interval is similar for a given product. Again, its not a subtle phenomenon.

At the top of the recording/mastering community, where the best engineers examine sound so carefully its as if by microscope, most of them understand and accept burn-in of any new cable product as a simple fact of life. If they move, bend or otherwise mishandle cable, they know it has to sit for a few hours with signal/current to re-stabilize.

This phenomenon hasn't been measured and explicated scientifically because no one's going to enter into that research without serious funding or in essence "get paid" for the work. Even if incontrovertible truths were uncovered, the forum arguments would continue much as they are and the measurements would be refuted (quacks, paid off etc).

There are generally two poles of opinion that are common to these types of discussions. Pole One: are end users who have empirical experience with countless products that go through rather unequivocal changes over the first week or more of use. Pole Two: are those who have already determined without having performed their own tests that burn in related to power cords and, or cables in general is based on the wild imaginings of the audiophile community. There are Poles in between, sure, but these are the main two.

I hope this sheds a bit of context on Caelin's post that got dart-boarded…. :)

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research
 
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Grant - thank you for shedding some light on the burn-in cycle. We appreciate your input and the education you provide. I definitely believe in the importance of cable burn in. I can't explain it per se, but I know it makes a difference.
 
Maybe we should stop calling it burn-in, and come up with a better term. I prefer 'atomic alignment', as my hypothesis is the atoms in the cable become aligned over time, and this allows the cable to be a more efficient conductor.
 
Personally I could care less why break-in makes a difference. I do however find in fascinating why. Which is why I find this discussion great.
 
When I first read that post (post #1; link) I also thought the same; fascinating.

Then I wanted to share what I did find fascinating with my friends, but without forming any opinion; I just wanted to hear what people have to say.
Then I soon expressed mine too; regarding already "break-in" ('Atomic Alignment') AC power cords from one system, and then if used in another system, and found it even more fascinating that they needed to be "broken-in" ('atomic alignment') again! ...According to some.*

I've seen many things in my life, and I've read few two, and I consider myself a bright person.
I judge no one who has an opinion, but I like to comment on that opinion, not who has it.
That way I can learn something without being judged.

But life is tough once in a while, and having an opinion on an opinion that you are wondering about is like, for some people, hurting their feelings. No?
Is there a single word, a single thought in my post that seems to be unfair? Of course not.

We love to be happy, have fun, laugh, being humorous, learn, share, and we always respect.
We're all humans, sensitive people, smart people, and we know life's true essential values above all else.

There is a balance on our planet; and it is a mix of seriousness (at the right times), with pleasure (fun 'bout).
Everyone is free to choose his own balance for himself/herself, and nobody else has the right to tell them if their balance is right or wrong, as long that they don't really do anything wrong.

The words we use, are the words that describe us, our lines of thought. And the way we put them together, are not the same from one another. And our actions are direct reflections of who we truly are, our lines of thought.

* The part in purple is the part that I'm most interested in. And that's where I would love to learn more about. ...Anyone? ...Grant?
 
. . . .What amazes me the most though is the people (two) who are claiming that already broken-in cables need to be broken-in again if you used them in a new system! . . . .

Some people think if you pick up the cables and lay them back down again, they need to be broken in again.
 
I would love to know why, scientifically speaking Gary. ...But I don't think I'll ever get that answer.

About you Gary, what do you think?

* Anyhow I'll see if one of my local audio dealers carry them and I'll get few of them (they're very affordable anyway),
and will experiment with them, and compare them to others, and in two different systems; unbroken (not atomically aligned), and breaking them in and re-breaking them in and lifting them of the floor and re-positioning them on the floor and re-re-breaking them in again. ...Ouf!
 
Then I wanted to share what I did find fascinating with my friends, but without forming any opinion; I just wanted to hear what people have to say.
Then I soon expressed mine too; regarding already "break-in" ('Atomic Alignment') AC power cords from one system, and then if used in another system, and found it even more fascinating that they needed to be "broken-in" ('atomic alignment') again! ...According to some.*

Bob, I think Grant touched on that here in his post.

...At the top of the recording/mastering community, where the best engineers examine sound so carefully its as if by microscope, most of them understand and accept burn-in of any new cable product as a simple fact of life. If they move, bend or otherwise mishandle cable, they know it has to sit for a few hours with signal/current to re-stabilize.

This phenomenon hasn't been measured and explicated scientifically because no one's going to enter into that research without serious funding or in essence "get paid" for the work. Even if incontrovertible truths were uncovered, the forum arguments would continue much as they are and the measurements would be refuted (quacks, paid off etc).



I would think that this part,

If they move, bend or otherwise mishandle cable,

would also include changing cables to different systems.
 
Bob, I think Grant touched on that here in his post.

If they move, bend or otherwise mishandle cable,

would also include changing cables to different systems.

Yes, exactly. I don't want to go too far into the technical "why's" because for the most part this would be based on informed opinion and experience rather than measurement or commonly accepted science. However, not unlike breaking down and moving or shipping components, cables that are removed from a system and bent, twisted or 'shocked' by dropping or otherwise rough handling can take a few hours to "settle" when reapplied to the same, or a different system.

I travel extensively with the products. We set up shows; we demonstrate for recording professionals and dealers so this "phenomenon" has been repeated hundreds if not thousands of times. If the product is broken in and handled with care, there is a settling time of about one to three hours where the sound goes through some change. If the product was shipped or had some rough handling, this time frame extends from hours to a day or two, maybe more depending on the design and extent of bending/twisting/bumping.

When we visit recording engineers, quite often there can be some healthy skepticism about the product itself, so I can't in good conscience ask them to wait three days before testing once I arrive--that would tip them right off their chair. Instead, I ship the product ahead with burn-in adaptors. I find a friendly ear, maybe one of the tech's, and ask that the products be plugged in and run off of a light, fan or other electronics away from the system to be used for test for 3-5 days prior to my arrival. Once there, I carefully move the product to the system to be used as the test and apply the products. Then, we sit down to discuss what the products are and how they work before any listening occurs. This gives still more time and has worked extremely well for years. We've converted many hardened skeptics at the top of their respective field--which makes what I do enjoyable.

I don't want to overstate this effect or imply there is any scientific proof involved. It's largely experiential, so for those that haven't had the experience or already struggle with the idea of power cords affecting sound, I don't want to go too far down that path. We use the term "settling" a lot because its a calming word and won't bristle the brow of the technically inclined. If I were to say, 'please allow several days for the proper atomic alignment of the metals', I'd be shown the door… Though I'd love to try that just once to see the reaction. :)

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research
 
The wife wanted me to move a lamp for her the other night, I couldn't do it, it would have taken too long for the cable to 'break in' again after I moved it !
 
The wife wanted me to move a lamp for her the other night, I couldn't do it, it would have taken too long for the cable to 'break in' again after I moved it !

Grant - are there cables you have found that take longer to break in then others? For example, a pair of Anaconda speaker cables may take 3 times longer than a Venom 3 power cord? I've found that power cables seem to take the longest, IC's the shortest and speaker cables somewhere in the middle.
 
:)

People do readily accept that when you turn on a component like an amp or CD player, it can take the same 1-3 hours(some longer) for those components to settle and perform to their full potential. That might be the more palatable explanation and that works fine for me. In doing industry evals, controlling variables is important. We recognize settling/burn in as a variable and try to control it as best we can. That doesn't mean that you can't appreciate the dramatic changes that become apparent on first application of a new cable or one that's gone through some jostling. It's just that there are changes along the way, some of which can be avoided if you are careful not to treat the cable like a bungee cord.
 
We use the term "settling" a lot because its a calming word and won't bristle the brow of the technically inclined. If I were to say, 'please allow several days for the proper atomic alignment of the metals', I'd be shown the door… Though I'd love to try that just once to see the reaction. :)

'Settling' is a good word, until somebody asks just what is 'settling'.

I have always been a fan of alliteration, so maybe 'molecular movement' is more apt. As in 'minimum molecular movement makes music more magnificent'. :)
 
:)

People do readily accept that when you turn on a component like an amp or CD player, it can take the same 1-3 hours(some longer) for those components to settle and perform to their full potential.

Grant, I've got to ask…….. what is there within a CD player that takes up to three hours to 'settle in' ?
 
First, thank you Doug for your gentle reply (post #31 above).

And thank you Grant for a truly fascinating subject, and with your explanations; I am reading attentively.

And I'm sorry if earlier I came up sounding like skeptical with my unique sense of humor; rest assured that I always respect everyone.

Thank you again to what more and more I see as a very interesting discussion, and for Grant's patience and contribution.
- Shunyata Research seems to be well grounded, with realistically (very reasonable) priced products, and with performance to back them up.
So it is even more rewarding to have some real feedback by someone in the know (experienced) on how to care for them products when used in our own systems.

Kudos to you Grant. I am learning.
 
Grant - are there cables you have found that take longer to break in then others? For example, a pair of Anaconda speaker cables may take 3 times longer than a Venom 3 power cord? I've found that power cables seem to take the longest, IC's the shortest and speaker cables somewhere in the middle.

Each product, whether ours or another company's will likely have its own unique characteristics and time-frame for break in based on the design, the gauge, termination metals, connection type. Within our range, probably the Digital cables take the longest due to the signal type.

With power cords, yes, the larger the cord, the longer the break-in cycle and the more unpredictable the process --it can also depend on what type of load is applied to break it in.

Speaker cables are a pain in particular because you can't just use an adaptor and run them on a fan or a light. There are burn-in devices that can help, but speaker cables will still benefit the most from time in the system between amp and speaker. Interconnects are probably the fastest to break in, but in all a good rule of thumb is 5-6 days of heavy use for cables, a little more for the digital cables or particularly heavy gauge cables.

Regards,

Grant
 
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