Lumin, Leedh’ing the way

Are the benefits of using the X1 (with Leedh) connected directly to a power amp limited to playback using the Lumin app only or would they also extend to playback using Roon via the X1?
 
Yes Leedh Processing Volume is applicable even if using Roon, and Spotify Connect, etc.
 
Thank you. So volume control (and limiter) functions available in the Lumin app need to be provided in the Roon app if using it as there is no preamp?
 
Once both Volume control options are enabled in Lumin app (with optional Max Volume % setting), volume works the same way in Roon app. All these need to be set only one time using Lumin app.
 
RDSChicago,
I am using the balanced outputs from the Lumin X1 with a 3 meter Shunyata Sigma V2 interconnect to Bob Carver M350's mono blocks.
I have attached to the Lumin via a USB cable a 8TB Hard drive that has a ton of HR music on it. I also stream from Qoboz.

ozzy
 
Here are my subjective test results after playing with Leedh Volume

Option 1: Connect the Lumin D1 via XLR to my Parasound P5 Pre (Leedh turned off)

Option 2: Connect the Lumin D1 via RCA cables to my Parasound P5 Pre to Bypass (Leedh turned on)

I listened to a song and flipped back and forth to the different inputs on my Pre and turning Leedh on and off. The tricky part was trying to match the volumes which is difficult but I gave it my best shot. I will continue the test with more music, but I have to say that I didn't notice a veil lifting moment, I would have to say the song didn't seem that much different to me. Maybe the Leedh had a slight edge, but I know I "wanted" the Leedh to improve my sound, so I probably was trying to convince myself it was better. Is there anything I should try differently in my test? Is having the RCA and XLR cables hooked up in the Lumin concurrently causing any degredation?
 
Tjs77, I had similar results (1) using my Classe sigma SSP in digital bypass mode with Leedh turned off, and (2) setting my Classe to unity gain (still in digital bypass mode) and using the Leedh volume. I had a hard time telling the difference, but if I had to pick one or the other, I would pick Leedh. Like you said, I wanted Leedh to sound better, so maybe there was some bias.
 
Why don’t you try going directly from the Lumin into your power amp and use the Lumin volume control with Leedh processing. That’s what I’ve been doing with my X1 and it sounds quite good!
 
The Classe Sigma is a prepro and I also use it for my Blu-ray and Lg TV. Although it is a prepro, it is optimized for 2 channel. I use it in digital bypass mode when using the Lumin and it acts as a good analog preamp. It sounds good either way, I just don’t hear a big difference.
 
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RDSChicago said:
Why don’t you try going directly from the Lumin into your power amp and use the Lumin volume control with Leedh processing. That’s what I’ve been doing with my X1 and it sounds quite good!
Click to expand...

Good question, and something I tried. I would have to switch the toggle in the back of the amp for the unbalanced and balanced connection depending on if I was using my TV/Vinyl vs the Lumin for that to work. Maybe that can work, but from what I read, the Home Theater bypass *should* do the same thing theoretically as it is supposed to go through none of the circuitry in the pre-amp to process the sound. I will try the direct connection again, and see if there is an audible difference and then see if it is worth flipping the balanced/unbalanced toggle everytime I want to switch from the streamer vs any other media I'd want to listen to.
 
New Lumin user here too. Perhaps I’m thick skulled, but looking for further guidance, even after reading the thread. Any other guidance to folks who have Integrated amps with internal DACs with remotes and Lumin devices. For example, on my Lumin app, I initial took all defaults on anything to do with volume settings - didnt know any better.

Max Volume % = 100
“Master” (Circle Icon) Lumin Volume = 100

Internal DAC = gain setting 0 (can be adjusted +/- 6 db I think)
Using USB Lumin > Diablo DAC

When I was listening, I was so surprised how much “more” I was hearing to the point where I had suspecting the amp was getting fed a really hot signal. My diablo 120 has a max volume at 45. Even at 25-27, my system was (maybe artificially) extremely loud - So that started me on exploring these Lumin settings.

I’m mainly a streamer, so I either use Spotify or Tidal/Quboz (probably start some hires downloads to NAS soon) from either our iPhones/iPads, but also use use my 2CH system for movies so the remote control is useful for us to switch inputs and volume. I have a Max Volume Protect controlled on the amp enabled.

Does it make sense to leave it all settings to 100% on the Lumin app? It is mentioned in the thread to set Max Volume % lower to protect the speakers for a safety? Also mentioned to just use the Lumin app for all things volume?

I suppose the end goal here is simplicity...and in my mind, I would still revert to the Diablo remote as it is familiar with my family, so that in turn makes me wonder where I should set the Lumin App settings to a “set it and forget it” setting?

Am i over thinking this? At “100” - it seems the signal is hot? Lowering it (80 on both), the audiophile hysteria in me says I’m not getting it all ‘correct’ and I need to measure — but man, I’m just a part-time audiophile :)
 
1. If you use the volume of an integrated amp, you should generally set the U1 MINI to disable the Volume Control (such that volume is 100 with max volume % at 100), otherwise the Lumin output to the DAC will no longer be bit perfect. For Lumin digital output (not analog output like those on Lumin X1 or T2) 100 is standard, it is not hot at all. If you find Lumin digital volume 100 being too hot for your DAC, it's your DAC + amp + speakers that is too hot for your desirable listening.

2. The Max Volume % feature is primarily used in scenario where you bypass the preamp or exclusively use the Lumin app volume instead of the preamp or integrated amp volume control. You can experiment with these but if you still need to use the integrated amp volume for other purposes, then don't. You either exclusively use Lumin app volume, or exclusively use the integrated amp volume, mixing them for different purposes will be error prone.

3. If your DAC offers a lower gain setting (e.g. -6dB), you should try it. Only if it still sounds too loud to you should you decrease the Lumin volume. Note that if you have volume control enabled in Lumin U1 (MINI), DSD will be converted to PCM before outputting to the DAC.
 
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the response and your continued support. This is where I was concerned and you addressed them.

wklie said:
1. If you use the volume of an integrated amp, you should generally set the U1 MINI to disable the Volume Control (such that volume is 100 with max volume % at 100), otherwise the Lumin output to the DAC will no longer be bit perfect. For Lumin digital output (not analog output like those on Lumin X1 or T2) 100 is standard, it is not hot at all. If you find Lumin digital volume 100 being too hot for your DAC, it's your DAC + amp + speakers that is too hot for your desirable listening.
Click to expand...
That part about be ‘no longer bit perfect’ is what I’m after.
Thanks for feedback on this. I did have a previous setup, it was an all in one streamer/integrated/dac and I am using the same speakers, cables, etc. But with the Lumin now in place and a new amp, even at low levels, it sounded very overwhelming, and there was no balance or less naturalness in the overall presentation and experience and I was starting to think something was bad in the chain...?

wklie said:
2. The Max Volume % feature is primarily used in scenario where you bypass the preamp or exclusively use the Lumin app volume instead of the preamp or integrated amp volume control. You can experiment with these but if you still need to use the integrated amp volume for other purposes, then don't. You either exclusively use Lumin app volume, or exclusively use the integrated amp volume, mixing them for different purposes will be error prone.
Click to expand...

Yah I’m going to use the Integrated but by no means calling out the Lumin being at fault here.....but if there is a compromise that I need to be aware of to maintain bit perfect then at least that is brought to the light of things...and I can make a decision on what to adjust, move or replace.

wklie said:
3. If your DAC offers a lower gain setting (e.g. -6dB), you should try it. Only if it still sounds too loud to you should you decrease the Lumin volume. Note that if you have volume control enabled in Lumin U1 (MINI), DSD will be converted to PCM before outputting to the DAC.
Click to expand...

Funny, you brought this up...I did just that as an experiment. And immediately there was a naturalness to the entire presentation. The terrible is smooth, the bass still intact, the system sounds so balanced now....no hint of a hot “signal” that I was previously reporting

My question, is this still bit perfect? :S
 
Gain is a function of DAC and amp. You changed the DAC / amp of course the gain will be different. The streamer having bit perfect output cannot make a difference in measured gain. To prove this, you simply need to use a computer (instead of Lumin) and output to the Diablo, making sure you use the appropriate ASIO driver and exclusive mode (bypass the OS mixer) to play the same tracks from JRiver or Audirvana at full volume. You will see that Lumin is not the cause of loudness you're having. Your DAC and amp are (even though I'm sure they are functioning correctly).

As long as Lumin U1 (MINI) Volume Control is turned Off, you get bit perfect output.

If the hot signal you referred to was clipping within the DAC, then it makes perfect sense that setting the DAC to -6dB would cure it due to "intersample overs".
 
RDSChicago said:
Why don’t you try going directly from the Lumin into your power amp and use the Lumin volume control with Leedh processing. That’s what I’ve been doing with my X1 and it sounds quite good!
Click to expand...

Interesting discussions using the Lumin X1 directly into an integrated bypassing the preamp. Right now, I have my X1 going balanced out to my Diablo balanced in (XLR). So in essence (I swear a Gryphon Essence is calling my name, FML), still using the amp’s preamp, if I’m not mistakened? Too, I’m still connecting the X1 via USB to my Diablo DAC (love doing comparisons like this for the geek in me). I still need the diablo DAC module for when I watch movies, this is done by toslink, and I’m not too worried about SQ or processing since the sitting positions are not that far away.

Are the SQ gains better:
with balanced (XLR) out to RCA or is a (XLR to XLR) balanced connection the way to go?
Or..
With unbalanced (rca) to rca better?

Several different factors are considered, but the wildcard is the preamp - which device should be the sole provider?

tjs77 said:
Good question, and something I tried. I would have to switch the toggle in the back of the amp for the unbalanced and balanced connection depending on if I was using my TV/Vinyl vs the Lumin for that to work. Maybe that can work, but from what I read, the Home Theater bypass *should* do the same thing theoretically as it is supposed to go through none of the circuitry in the pre-amp to process the sound. I will try the direct connection again, and see if there is an audible difference and then see if it is worth flipping the balanced/unbalanced toggle everytime I want to switch from the streamer vs any other media I'd want to listen to.
Click to expand...

Any update to your findings?? :)
 
Hi , i just tried using the leedh from Lumin X1 , with my Accuphase E-470 as it is possible to only use its amp section. I wasn't prepared on that big difference in sound it made , everything became more clear as well as much better differentiated in depth as well as between individuals playing in a group. Its so good that i can't imagine going back to use the preamp section of the Accuphase E-470 again. And now i am beginning to think about getting an amp only as Lumin Amp , or Gryphon Essence..... i might convince my dealer to let me get loan of one to see what it can do in my system. Although i am still bleeding from the purchased of Lumin X1 , but its with a smile on my face.
 
Thanks for this feedback. I tell yah, the Lumin Amp sounds like the perfect match too. I will have to try bypassing my diablo preamp. How are you outputting from your X1? Are you using a XLR to RCA or RCA to RCA?

FDPDK said:
Hi , i just tried using the leedh from Lumin X1 , with my Accuphase E-470 as it is possible to only use its amp section. I wasn't prepared on that big difference in sound it made , everything became more clear as well as much better differentiated in depth as well as between individuals playing in a group. Its so good that i can't imagine going back to use the preamp section of the Accuphase E-470 again. And now i am beginning to think about getting an amp only as Lumin Amp , or Gryphon Essence..... i might convince my dealer to let me get loan of one to see what it can do in my system. Although i am still bleeding from the purchased of Lumin X1 , but its with a smile on my face.
Click to expand...
 
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