YG Acoustics Carmel 2

The Hailey is a fantastic speaker. I really feel its the best in the line as its easier to drive than the Sonjas.
 
a.wayne said:
I see you still have the MSB202, did you try the YG's with them ...?
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Correct. They are:

>200W into 8 Ohms
>400W into 4 Ohms
>800W into 2 Ohms

and had successfully drove my old Wilsons Sasha with their 1.8 Ohm impedance dip.

I would be very much surprised if they were not up to the task.
 
Ohh me too, I would have thought them very much up to the task , hence why i asked to see if the amplification was the reason for the thin sound ..


Regards ...
 
I will dig out my mic and will take some measurements to see of how do they compare to other speakers I have measured in my room and maybe I will be able to get some bass reinforcements from a placement closer to the wall behind them.
 
I don't think it's the amp, as we've driven big Sonjas with the stereo MSB amp just fine.
A proper dealer install would've helped determine whether they'd work in your room or not...
Oh, I'd also remove (if possible) any and all room treatments you might've added for other speakers. Find the best spot for the bass, then bring stuff back if and when needed.
 
I have played with them today some more. I have moved them back to the front wall, reducing the distance from 4 to 2 feet, but that didn't help. I didn't want to go any further, as that always impairs the soundstaging in my room. Repositioning them closer to the back wall didn't help much and didn't change the basic character of the speakers.

As hours have passed, I have also noticed another thing which started to bother me - a certain prominence around 2-3k region. At first I though the Carmels sounded more lively than the S1 mk 2, but then I noticed this prominence, which highlighted the instruments' leading edges. It was also noted by John Atkinson in his review, who noted a slight excess of energy evident in the mid-treble.
IMO the S1 mk 2 are much better balanced overall (no bass shelving and mid-treble prominence), sound more natural throughout the midrange, have smoother highs, more resolution, go lower in the bass, have better soundstaging (esp. soundstage depth) and cost 1/3 less.

That said, there was one thing I liked more in the Carmels. They can play pretty loud without having to worry about the bass drivers bottoming out. That was the problem I had with the S1s. Play a deep bass impulse loud enough (say bass whacks from Braveheart soundtrack) and the drivers would bottom out. It was as if the S1s were trying too hard, digging too low. The Carmels on the other hand just don't do the lowest bass, with the lowest impulses beeing gently compressed as if the bass driver was self limiting.

That puts the Carmels in really difficoult position, especially if you consider the fact that the much bigger Magico S3 mk 2 (and more capable) are almost the same price as the Carmels ...
 
Yes but, when you consider the S1 Mk2 are shipped via cardboard and YGs are crated. The YGs have a slightly higher fit and finish more like a Q series than an S. Remember YG has only one line where as Magico has two. I assume M will replace Q.

Magico at least my personal experience in the US is dealers won't discount anything on these speakers. Silly in my opinion these are speakers not custom exotic cars. There has to be some margin.

But most importantly is the Dual Coherent Crossover which is exclusive to YG.

A mechanical time-coherent alignment of drivers, like Wilson, Magico and YG Acoustics all do, is designed to match the drivers' relative phase at the exact crossover frequency. However, it cannot match their phase across anything more than a single frequency.

DualCoherent is in addition to this - a circuit that makes sure that the relative phase is near-zero not just at the crossover frequency, but across the drivers' entire overlap-range which is much wider than a single frequency.
Therefore, for a truly phase-coherent design one needs both: accurate mechanical alignment of the drivers to match them at the crossover frequency, and the DualCoherent crossover to expand that phase-match so that it covers the entire overlap.

:)
 
I agree that the YG finish is more expensive, which at least partially explains the price difference. I was only reporting on what I've heard in my room. Others may have been more successful.
 
Adam, my experience is more with Haileys than with Carmels, but I noted that excess of leading edge in all rooms except in Paris where it was paired with a Luxman m900u where they were superbly musical. The other pairings were mainly with Burmesters and Boulder. I suspect some sort of cable/power/amp combo can eliminate it. Paris it was like Quads/stats with more bass and slam. Yes it can do with subs in bigger rooms so I suspect the Carmels will need them.

Elberoth said:
I have played with them today some more. I have moved them back to the front wall, reducing the distance from 4 to 2 feet, but that didn't help. I didn't want to go any further, as that always impairs the soundstaging in my room. Repositioning them closer to the back wall didn't help much and didn't change the basic character of the speakers.

As hours have passed, I have also noticed another thing which started to bother me - a certain prominence around 2-3k region. At first I though the Carmels sounded more lively than the S1 mk 2, but then I noticed this prominence, which highlighted the instruments' leading edges. It was also noted by John Atkinson in his review, who noted a slight excess of energy evident in the mid-treble.
IMO the S1 mk 2 are much better balanced overall (no bass shelving and mid-treble prominence), sound more natural throughout the midrange, have smoother highs, more resolution, go lower in the bass, have better soundstaging (esp. soundstage depth) and cost 1/3 less.

That said, there was one thing I liked more in the Carmels. They can play pretty loud without having to worry about the bass drivers bottoming out. That was the problem I had with the S1s. Play a deep bass impulse loud enough (say bass whacks from Braveheart soundtrack) and the drivers would bottom out. It was as if the S1s were trying too hard, digging too low. The Carmels on the other hand just don't do the lowest bass, with the lowest impulses beeing gently compressed as if the bass driver was self limiting.

That puts the Carmels in really difficoult position, especially if you consider the fact that the much bigger Magico S3 mk 2 (and more capable) are almost the same price as the Carmels ...
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Do you think think that the YGs are more sensitive to to the upstream than other speakers? Could a more neutral cable/amp and or combo could eliminate such leading edges you spoke of?
 
bonzo said:
Adam, my experience is more with Haileys than with Carmels, but I noted that excess of leading edge in all rooms except in Paris where it was paired with a Luxman m900u where they were superbly musical. The other pairings were mainly with Burmesters and Boulder. I suspect some sort of cable/power/amp combo can eliminate it. Paris it was like Quads/stats with more bass and slam. Yes it can do with subs in bigger rooms so I suspect the Carmels will need them.
Click to expand...

Sure, but no amp will eliminate the bass shelving that seems to be the problem of this design. IMO they need to be used with subs, but even then - the cut off fq would need to be set very high, which could lead to bass integration problems. IMO it is just better to get the bigger model instead.
 
mdp632 said:
Do you think think that the YGs are more sensitive to to the upstream than other speakers? Could a more neutral cable/amp and or combo could eliminate such leading edges you spoke of?
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If anything, more neutral amp than my msb monos (which are very much on the warm side of neutral), say Spectral, Soulution, Boulder, will highlight that edge even further.
 
Adam,

Thanks for sharing. Perhaps I'll stick my with warm Pass amp as a good combination. To that end, to get some more resolution and lower distortion I'll think about upgrading my speaker cables/interconnects in the future. The new Shunyata stuff looks promising.
 
Elberoth said:
Sure, but no amp will eliminate the bass shelving that seems to be the problem of this design. IMO they need to be used with subs, but even then - the cutout fq would need to be set very high, which could lead to bass integration problems. IMO it is just better to get the bigger model instead.
Click to expand...

I agree strongly they need subs
 
My Carmel 2 arrived last week. On first listening, indeed it was bass-shy. And the mid and high sound boxed. Changing from focal Scala v2, difference is huge (but bass boom problem in my small living room).

However after 1 week of running in, currently about 50 hours in, definitely there is improvement of low end extension. The mid starting to sound more natural.
Is it low enough for me? I hope there is slightly more bass, but let it fully run in for 300-400 hours according to local dealer and will comment again. I haven’t changed the speakers feet yet. I think it will improve in the future.

Just my humble opinion

*my living room size is 3.5m x 6.8m
 
Some pictures

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