SCAudiophile
Active member
GREAT post!!!
Why no turntable?
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
GREAT post!!!
Kuoppis
New member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2015
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In this hobby no-one needs anything. It’s all aspirational.
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- Thread Author
- #363
I have seen this a million times. Randy dipped his toe in the water of analog and rather than get a cartridge he will want to replace in 6 -12 months, get a solid “law of diminishing returns” cart like the cadenza black. That way, if he want to step up his table and arm, he’s set. In the store, we have a $15,000 cart on a $4000 table with a stock arm. There is no hard and set formula.
But if he wants a strict match for his table, the Quintet Black is a nice step up.
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But if he wants a strict match for his table, the Quintet Black is a nice step up.
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UltraFast69
New member
Assuming you stay with MM;
My thought is move up to the Credenza Bronze MM at $400, then if you want to move up replace the stylus to the Cadenza Black MM for approx $550, but then your into this than initially buying the Black MM out the gate for about $750.
Past this my gut, and only my gut says you may be out cartridging the benefits of the arm and table leaving little for the phono
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UltraFast69
New member
Can’t agree more, it’s this way no matter anything Audio and heck even trading in my wife of 26 years and that’s what I’m trying to say below other than making it clear to stay with a MM versus MC on his setup allowing for improvement with consideration to some level of expense, but I’m only in knee deep in experience at this point [emoji851]
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
Thank you for all the suggestions, opinions, etc. Always appreciated. I am definitely in a learning, or should I say relearning phase. I know back in the day I preferred MM cartridges versus MC. Not even sure exactly why. Maybe because every good preamp had a MM phone stage built in??? I did truly love my Grace Rudy. I also liked the Signet... I think the model was 7 something or another.
I will probably hold tight for now. The 2M Blue seems to do a nice job to get me back in. I have also been putting a good chunk of change into accessories and albums. I just ordered a nice hand made record rack. Cheryal may not be real happy putting another grand into a cartridge for the new table right now
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I will probably hold tight for now. The 2M Blue seems to do a nice job to get me back in. I have also been putting a good chunk of change into accessories and albums. I just ordered a nice hand made record rack. Cheryal may not be real happy putting another grand into a cartridge for the new table right now
.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I actually spoke with Ben, one of the founders of U-Turn. He said they have been trying the Ortofon 2M Bronze and believe it works very well with the U-Turn tables. He also stated that he believes the Black would probably be an over kill for the table/arm.
My next move might be to try a Bronze. I could always add a Black stylus later if I wanted to try it. Then I would have the entire 2M series covered. At this time I don't feel like I am interested in a MC cartridge, will probably stick with MM for now. But as it stands the Blue seems to be working rather well.
Here is one of Ben's replies- "Great question, we've done some experimenting with the 2M Bronze and it sounds great. I'd be wary of going any higher than this - the 2M Black is probably overkill."
My next move might be to try a Bronze. I could always add a Black stylus later if I wanted to try it. Then I would have the entire 2M series covered
. At this time I don't feel like I am interested in a MC cartridge, will probably stick with MM for now. But as it stands the Blue seems to be working rather well.Here is one of Ben's replies- "Great question, we've done some experimenting with the 2M Bronze and it sounds great. I'd be wary of going any higher than this - the 2M Black is probably overkill."
Kingrex
Active member
Smart move Randy. It's nice to hear UTurn has done their homework and are honest on what works best. I would trust the experts making the table. It will probably be advise based upon getting the most natural, balanced tone from rhe table.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
First play with Bronze. Super easy install since the nuts are built into the cartridge body. How easy is that! Bit lighter tracking force. Sounds good but obviously on first song a but too early to tell the difference 
.
Ok, first very very early report. Very slight edge, especially in high frequency. Totally expected and with a little time I anticipate that smoothing.
But... acoustic guitar, Eva Cassidy Simply Eva... wow... hearing her fingers on the strings like she is sitting here playing, and a slight reverb from the guitar body. Close to stunning difference in this regards. Also noticeably quieter.
First listen it is quite impressive!
.Ok, first very very early report. Very slight edge, especially in high frequency. Totally expected and with a little time I anticipate that smoothing.
But... acoustic guitar, Eva Cassidy Simply Eva... wow... hearing her fingers on the strings like she is sitting here playing, and a slight reverb from the guitar body. Close to stunning difference in this regards. Also noticeably quieter.
First listen it is quite impressive!
randy -- i have really enjoyed following your experience with the u-turn. thanks for all the posts and info.
at this point i would be very curious as to how you would characterize this analog set-up in comparison to your digital source... maybe something along the lines of "different but just as enjoyable" or maybe " different, enjoyable but not on the level of the t+a dac8 dsd source"... etc?
just trying to get some idea of how high one has to go up the analog food chain to reach a point of "different but equal" relative to a system with the t+a. sounds like, with some tweaks, you have come pretty darn close with the u-turn.
thanks, and keep the posts coming!!
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Hmmm, well my digital is still better. Of course it is easier with less fuss... low (no) noise, more dynamic. The analog setup is also very enjoyable. They are different and I do not think I could actually put my finger on the real differences. There certainly is something about the analog that is very enjoyable. Convenience certainly is not it .
I also think the U-Turn might be more capable then they even give it credit for. I am amazed at how much it can show the differences in minor upgrades. I would not be surprised if the Black might actually be a noticeable improvement.
I go back and forth and every time I play my digital it is like, dam that is good! But then I play a good album and dam that is fun.... I also like that there is many of my old favorites that I have gotten in analog that I have never seen in digital.
If I had to choice between CD and Vinyl it would definitely be Vinyl. High rez digital and especially DSD would be a different story. So far I am liking having both.
.I also think the U-Turn might be more capable then they even give it credit for. I am amazed at how much it can show the differences in minor upgrades. I would not be surprised if the Black might actually be a noticeable improvement.
I go back and forth and every time I play my digital it is like, dam that is good! But then I play a good album and dam that is fun.... I also like that there is many of my old favorites that I have gotten in analog that I have never seen in digital.
If I had to choice between CD and Vinyl it would definitely be Vinyl. High rez digital and especially DSD would be a different story. So far I am liking having both.
If I had to choose between CD and Vinyl it would definitely be CD.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
And that is pretty much the point. We all have our preferences. For me, CD is the minimal resolution/format. I will not have anything lower (i.e. MP3's); DSD512 is currently my maximum. Vinyl falls in the middle as an alternative fun format. There are several albums that I own in CD that I have bought the vinyl version and with a rare exception I prefer the vinyl.
I also understand I do not have high level of either. My Oppo spinner is a solid machine but I use it for one purpose only. Every disk I get any more, gets spun once, to rip it and copy to my music server machine.
The U-Turn table with SimAudio phono stage and the Ortofon 2M Bronze are not expensive either. Total value about the same as the Oppo. Playing a CD on my Oppo versus an album on the U-Turn setup, I do prefer the analog.
Kingrex
Active member
My experience is exactly the opposit. Many album I like on digital are less enjoyable on vinyl. Especially the new expensive vinyl. I wasted at least $200 recently chasing vinyl bliss that was a flop.
Vinyl for me is amazing when you find an old, not on digital "Art Pepper" or some great artist that was produced superbly.
Vinyl for me is amazing when you find an old, not on digital "Art Pepper" or some great artist that was produced superbly.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Absolutely true. My vinyl buddy warned me about re-made vinyl from digital sources. He basically advised me to look for original recordings, remastered from original master tapes, etc. But to try and stir clear of vinyl created from digital remasters. So this is what I have been trying to do. With a few exceptions I have been concentrating on better vinyl and with again, a few exceptions, most that I have gotten are pretty darn good!
A good example for me is a few Pink Floyd albums that I recently purchased. The vinyl sounds considerably better then the standard CD version I have. However the two that I have in SACD I will not purchase in vinyl.
UltraFast69
New member
Mike Lavigne taught me to look for recordings in their native format, and while not a guarantee it’s a good place to start. 45s will sound better then 33s. Mono can be better than in stereo.
As far as remasters, look for the original analog tape as the source.
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As far as remasters, look for the original analog tape as the source.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
Yup, pretty much what my vinyl buddy told me. I am happy with the sound of almost all of the albums I have gotten so far. I try to be careful in what I purchase for sure!
I have jokingly remarked before that when I want a turntable sound I eat Rice Krispies with my digital system. I get plenty of snap, crackle, and pop and it's cheaper too."
On a more serious note, turntables, tape, and digital are all great formats. A lot depends on budget, space, and how much tinkering one desires to do. Not every format is needed for a great system. However, occasionally options are wonderful to have.
PS: While the new system I'm initialing receiving from Mike is digital, I already begun discussing a TT with Mike as well.
On a more serious note, turntables, tape, and digital are all great formats. A lot depends on budget, space, and how much tinkering one desires to do. Not every format is needed for a great system. However, occasionally options are wonderful to have.
PS: While the new system I'm initialing receiving from Mike is digital, I already begun discussing a TT with Mike as well.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
Hehe... Mike is a big TT fan. I am enjoying my experimenting with vinyl again. It certainly is fun, although I do think my digital is still better.