Why no turntable?

Mike said:
Bingo. In the digital domain, I can’t tell you the last time I listened to an entire album all the way through, then played it all the way through again. But right now I’ve got a MOFI release of CSNY Deja Vu playing through for the second time in a row.
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I can’t tell you the last time I found ONE Album that I didn’t want to skip at least one track. I can’t remember the last album that didn’t have a shit track unworthy of a second listen. Why would I waste 3 1/2 minutes listening to something I don’t enjoy? I don’t eat crappy food just because some chef presents it to me. I don’t stand in front of a painting that doesn’t capture my attention.

Puroagave’s example of us re-sequenceing music or books for fun is plain hyperbole. We do it to not waste time listening to crappy tracks not because we are hyper kinetic.
 
puroagave said:
this point is a biggie for me. Shuffle play, play lists, yada yada is nothing more than muzak. would you listen the 4th movement of Pathétique first and then jump back to the 2nd? im not the arbiter of good taste or really care what one does within the confines of their domicile, but skipping around tracks is akin to starting a book on chapter 12 then going straight to chapter 3 then starting a new book on chapter 7 before you even finish the first book! Do you also fast forward through movies just the watch the end and then rewind to the middle? or eat dessert between the 1st and 2nd to last course? its moronic. the next thing you'll be admitting to is regularly listening to yer $500k of hifi 50 ft away off the patio deck while reading the paper:wacko:
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Depending on what’s playing, I will jump around unless it’s an excellent recording then I’m listening to both the music and the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Mike said:
Bingo. In the digital domain, I can’t tell you the last time I listened to an entire album all the way through, then played it all the way through again. But right now I’ve got a MOFI release of CSNY Deja Vu playing through for the second time in a row.
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It’s a great album, this is one you can listen straight through


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Yes SSDs. But even regular HDs are more reliable than turntables. I have (knock on wood) zero reliability issues with any digital. Period.
But you went further, you clearly implied that digital was not as reliable as LPs.


The bolded part is, quite frankly, nonsense. Poor internet connectivity has nothing to do with "digital" playback reliability, which is superior to any form of archaic "analog". You are conflating digital with internet.
If the internet goes down, queue up a CD or a local file or a network file. Instantly.
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You’re picking fly shit out of pepper now AJ. If your only source for digital music is streaming, you are screwed if you lose your internet connection. Next you will argue that no one does that. If you are using a headless server and your WiFi goes down, your remote app won’t work.
 
At one point I was very much into vinyl but these days with the convenience, not to mention the “economics” of streaming services and virtually unlimited selection of music, it is difficult for me to convince myself to get back into it. That’s not to say I didn’t appreciate the analog qualities of vinyl playback with a good turntable, cartridge and phonostage.
 
mep said:
mep said:
Digital also isn't as stable as vinyl.
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You’re picking fly shit out of pepper now AJ.
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:lol:
You made the ridiculous claim. Quoted! for brevity.

mep said:
If your only source for digital music is streaming, you are screwed if you lose your internet connection. Next you will argue that no one does that. If you are using a headless server and your WiFi goes down, your remote app won’t work.
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You've been reduced to ifs.
And you're going to argue everyone "digital" streams and digital is the same as internet. :lol:
Sorry, it isn't. One can be full digital with zero internet. Was so for years.
 
Btw, I don't know a single audiophile whose only source of music is streaming. Teen kids, sure. Audiophile, not one.
I do know countless audiophiles who are digital only...with no streaming whatsoever.
CDs came out in the 80s. Plenty folks went full digital that far back. Tidal launched in 2014. Gimme a break that audiophiles were streaming Spotify only as there music source prior. :rolleyes:
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Btw, I don't know a single audiophile whose only source of music is streaming. Teen kids, sure. Audiophile, not one.
I do know countless audiophiles who are digital only...with no streaming whatsoever.
CDs came out in the 80s. Plenty folks went full digital that far back. Tidal launched in 2014. Gimme a break that audiophiles were streaming Spotify only as there music source prior. :rolleyes:
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I do. :).
 
No CDs, SACDs, no Lumin files, etc? Only stream these days?
Swore you had an MQA CD not far back....
 
AJ Soundfield said:
No CDs, SACDs, no Lumin files, etc? Only stream these days?
Swore you had an MQA CD not far back....
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Not me. A client of mine. He’s 100% streaming.

Me? 12,000 LP’s, 2,000+ CD’s and SACD’s, 50+ tapes. I have a really bad habit of buying music. I probably buy 10+ albums a month or more. I’m running out of room. But that won’t stop me.

I stream to find albums and then buy the CD, SACD, LP. But honestly, I mostly listen to music from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, so I just order it if the pressing is expected to be good.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
:lol:
You made the ridiculous claim. Quoted! for brevity.
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It's not ridiculous because it happens.

AJ Soundfield said:
You've been reduced to ifs.
And you're going to argue everyone "digital" streams and digital is the same as internet. :lol:
Sorry, it isn't. One can be full digital with zero internet. Was so for years.
Click to expand...

You like to put words in peoples' mouths to lend credence to your arguments. Lots of people stream music. Yes, you can be full digital with zero internet, but most people who are into digital have both. I never said that digital streaming and listening to digital files from your hard drive was the same.
 
mep said:
It's not ridiculous because it happens.
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It's ridiculous because "digital" is infinitely more reliable than turntables, period. Turntable unreliability "happens" too, a lot more often.
Your hand waving and red herrings not withstanding.

mep said:
I never said that digital streaming and listening to digital files from your hard drive was the same.
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Because it isn't and is a red herring/false equivalence of your creation. I quoted your claim multiple times.
If one has internet issues, get a new ISP, or start using digital files.
Both are still far more reliable than 19th century needle dragging tech. :rolleyes:

Why no turntable?
Because they are not as reliable.
 
Mike said:
Best qualities? It will bring you analog and give you a taste of just how good it can be. But the Concept is an entry level table with an entry level arm and cart. That being said, it will definitely tell you whether its for you to pursue further.
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UltraFast69 said:
I know your right, and what the true cost will end up being, it will be a ride.
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Mike said:
...The VPI HW40 ($15,000) or Avid Acutus DARK ($14,000) with a Ortofon Cadenza Black or similar and a Zesto Phonostage or Manley Chinook or Luxman EQ500 would be an absolute killer rig (and a killer rig in 10 years from now)....BUT, start with a simple, less expensive setup to make sure you really like it.
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herein lies the conundrum...

~$5k seems to only get you a teaser analog rig which, presumably, will be unsatisfying.
~25k gets you a killer rig which brings out the "best qualities" of vinyl... which is the whole point here, right?​

believe me, i really want to add analog... but, the $5k route seems inefficient. why not just go straight to the intended destination? so, looks like $25k is the price to get past the velvet rope and that is a different set of calculus...

is adding a good analog source really worth $25k?
why not just go all-in on digital with a killer DAC?
heck, why not rent a house in tuscany for a year and enjoy the weather, food and wine?
​

in the end, maybe just too much puritan frugality standing between me and vinyl bliss.
 
aKnyght said:
herein lies the conundrum...

~$5k seems to only get you a teaser analog rig which, presumably, will be unsatisfying.
~25k gets you a killer rig which brings out the "best qualities" of vinyl... which is the whole point here, right?​

believe me, i really want to add analog... but, the $5k route seems inefficient. why not just go straight to the intended destination? so, looks like $25k is the price to get past the velvet rope and that is a different set of calculus...

is adding a good analog source really worth $25k?
why not just go all-in on digital with a killer DAC?
heck, why not rent a house in tuscany for a year and enjoy the weather, food and wine?​

in the end, maybe just too much puritan frugality standing between me and vinyl bliss.
Click to expand...

All valid points. I’m part of a few groups of vinyl lovers and 95% don’t have a analog rig more than a VPI Prime or even VPI Scout or similar from Avid or ClearAudio. These folks start out with a few records from GoodWill for 75 cents. Within a few months they are buying Music Matters, Analog Productions, MOFI, finding rare first pressings, etc. You NEVER EVER EVER hear them say, “oh geez, I should have bought a CD player.” In fact, I had to look hard to find a group dedicated to CD’s (I found ONE). But there are dozens of vinyl groups. Hell, there is a group dedicated to just Music Matters pressings - and there are only about 165 (I have them all). There are groups just for MOFI pressings. Vinyl collector groups are everywhere. That’s the fun.

My point is that it becomes more about the collecting of the records and the listening to them, then who’s got the best turntable. In fact, most guys don’t give a shit which turntable you have. They’re more interested in your take on a particular new pressing or a rare old one.

I haven’t witnessed too many turntable fights. Why? Because the turntable guys want them all and love them all. I would love that black gold AF3 TT. OMG, it’s so pretty and yet, I sell AF’s number one competitor - Kronos. I would love an SME, Kuzma or ClearAudio. There isn’t a bad one in the bunch.

The only squabbles I’ve seen is when you see things getting out of hand like $35,000 tone arms and $400,000 tables. Are they good products? Sure, but as I’ve said, buy the $25K rig instead and get $375,000 worth of records!

So you start with a simple setup and start enjoying a part of the hobby you may not have ever experienced before or haven’t done for a long time. Unlikely you will be thinking of a better turntable for a few years. You will be probably more focused on finding that Japanese pressing of DSOTM. :)
 
wow!! now that is a convincing argument and, i think, answers the question posed in the OP definitively.

i am in... project for 2020
 
Even $5k is a lot to "try" vinyl again. I had vinyl. In the day it really was the only choice for top flight sound. I had Nakamichi decks and a top flight tuner as alternatives to listening to turntable. The tape was mainly used to make my own playlists (I make and delete playlists all the time now). But at that time vinyl was the only game in town.

Now, yes vinyl is a "thing" and I know a few who love the albums and "playing" with their turntables and record cleaning machines. I personally do not look back fondly to the days when I cleaned an album with every playing (other wise I feared that I would damage that fragile vinyl disk)... very loud first generation VPI machine... and constantly making sure my SME III arm was adjusted as good as possible, and making sure the my Grace Ruby cartridge was perfectly clean. And my ex did break off the ruby cantilever and stylus once when she was "dusting".

Honestly, I don't look back to those days fondly. And when I listen to a friend with a 1/4 million dollar rig and the first thing I hear is pops and clicks I go home and listen to the DSD512 decoded output from my T+A ($4500 retail) and I smile, enjoying it a ton more than his turntable (no idea costs) and his $30k phono pre (Audio Research Ref 10 phono pre-amp). This is just me, of course he swears by his vinyl and that is 100% ok. To each his own!
 
If you’re phased only by analog noise and not by digital noise , then congrats , the rest of us will have to just struggle along , enjoying both of course ...



Regards
 
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