Which Pre-Amp?

[CDLehner]

^^ Thanks everyone; good stuff

I think I'm going to take the Aesthetix Calypso, out of the running. Not because I don't think it's a great unit. As I said before...not a dog in this group.

But...there have been some, though not all; concerns about impedance mismatch. But when it comes down to it; if I'm going to stay tube...I like ARC too much, not to go that way.

SS; Pass sounds like the clear way to go...though the Ayre that's sitting there as we speak, is just fine as well (and did I mention...it's already sitting there?).

I did the C-J thing for a while. Little too "dainty" for my taste; a little too refined. Granted...I had an ET-2, and 3; so I'm sure a GAT, is a whole different animal. But I can't afford that animal anyway.

 

[Jack]

Chris

Before you take the Aesthetix out of the running because "some" have a concern about impedance mismatch, wouldn't it just be easier to contact Nelson's team and see what they say. Though they have a "personal" preference for ARC, get them to give you a range of impedance figures that will work. There should be a lot of really good tube preamps out there that will work with the Pass and don't live in the price range of the GAT. Also at one point there was a TRL Dude and Gill Audio Alana on AC for good prices, both highly respected tube preamps if they will work. The Prima Luna Dialogue preamp is another thought if it will work, though not the name recognition of ARC.

 

[Mechnutt]

Before I bought my BAT, I called Pass and BAT and asked them if there would be a problem with impedance mismatch and both did not think there would be a problem.

 

[mep]

the Calypso has high output impedance- no go for Pass.

look for fully balanced tube preamps- will tend to have lower output impedance. ARC, BAT, VTL, off the top of my head.

Relative to what?? Here is the output impedance specs from the Aesthetix website: Output impedance: 1K ohms SE, 600 ohms balanced
The input impedance specs for the 30.8 amp is 50k SE and 100k balanced

The accepted norm is to have the input impedance of the amp be at least 10x higher than the output of the preamp. You have a 50x ratio for SE out of the Calypso into the Pass 30.8 and greater than 160x for the balanced output of the Calypso into the input of the 30.8. Unless I'm missing something here, this combo should work just dandy.

 

[Jack]

And almost exactly the same figure as the BAT they told Mechnutt would work fine.

 

[KeithR]

Relative to what?? Here is the output impedance specs from the Aesthetix website: Output impedance: 1K ohms SE, 600 ohms balanced
The input impedance specs for the 30.8 amp is 50k SE and 100k balanced

The accepted norm is to have the input impedance of the amp be at least 10x higher than the output of the preamp. You have a 50x ratio for SE out of the Calypso into the Pass 30.8 and greater than 160x for the balanced output of the Calypso into the input of the 30.8. Unless I'm missing something here, this combo should work just dandy.

mep, read the actual measurements as impedance is an average quoted by manufacturer. the impedance in the bass is over 3,000 ohms.

Aesthetix Saturn Calypso line preamplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

I also was reading JA's tested impedance from the 60.5- which was 17k. If the 30.8 is indeed 50k, that's gives much better flexibility.




Keith

 

[Stringreen]

If you don't have a vinyl setup, that should be your next step. Ayre's phono board is incredible. ( either I missed the phono, or you didn't list it )

 

[Stringreen]

I hear that tube equipment is sounding more like solid state, and solid state equipment is sounding more like tubes......everyone seems to be striving for that middle of perfection.

 

[mep]

mep, read the actual measurements as impedance is an average quoted by manufacturer. the impedance in the bass is over 3,000 ohms.

Aesthetix Saturn Calypso line preamplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

I also was reading JA's tested impedance from the 60.5- which was 17k. If the 30.8 is indeed 50k, that's gives much better flexibility.




Keith

Even if it's 4k in the bass, it shouldn't matter with an input impedance of 50k SE and damn sure won't matter if he uses the balanced outputs from the preamp into the power amp.

 

[MikeCh]

Chris, if at all possible try to listen to the Calypso before making your decision. It's a beauty with just the right amount of tube flavor IMO.

Just an FYI, it also works exceptionally well with ARC solid state power amps (D130 and 100.2) that I have here. One day I'd like to try the Calypso with it's sibling the Atlas but for now the ARC is a super match and very satisfying.

 

[BlueFox]

If you get the XP-20 then add another $500 to upgrade the cheap, plastic throw away umbilical Pass provides to connnect the pre to the power supply. The Revelation Audio shielded silver umbilical takes the XP-20 to another level. At least it did for me, and for another person with an XP-30, plus he also did his XP-25.

 

[JDLaudio]

If you get the XP-20 then add another $500 to upgrade the cheap, plastic throw away umbilical Pass provides to connnect the pre to the power supply. The Revelation Audio shielded silver umbilical takes the XP-20 to another level. At least it did for me, and for another person with an XP-30, plus he also did his XP-25.

I read DarqueKnight's review of these cables. So if I use this cable on my XP-20 preamp, will it degrade my digital playback ?? That was a comment he made at the end of the review, with no further follow-up ??

 

[BlueFox]

I read DarqueKnight's review of these cables. So if I use this cable on my XP-20 preamp, will it degrade my digital playback ?? That was a comment he made at the end of the review, with no further follow-up ??

I doubt it since all I use is digital playback, and it made the sound much better. When the signal gets to the pre it is in the analog domain.

This is what he said. The differance was before the cable burnt in, and when you compare a record to an SACD I would expect there to be a difference. The question is, does the music sound better than before? Not does vinyl sound different than digital.

"At the 72 hour mark, I did an A/B comparison of the vinyl and SACD versions of "Take Five" by pausing the SACD version on one of the initial beats, starting the record version and restarting the SACD version when the record caught up. The image sizes, image placement, and overall sound level were identical. The record had more bass weight, bass detail, and bass articulation. There was also a bit of sibilance on the cymbals and some saxophone notes.

At the 96 hour mark, the sibilance was gone. At this A/B comparison of the vinyl and SACD versions of "Take Five", the SACD had more bass weight, bass detail and articulation. The SACD also had more high frequency detail and better ambient information presentation. Cymbals had more shimmer, decay, and detail.

..............

The RAL Passage Cryo DB25 power cords provided the most significant sonic improvement of any tweak to date."

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussi...-cryosilver-reference-db25-power-cable#latest

 

[FlexibleAudio]

mep, read the actual measurements as impedance is an average quoted by manufacturer. the impedance in the bass is over 3,000 ohms.

Aesthetix Saturn Calypso line preamplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

I also was reading JA's tested impedance from the 60.5- which was 17k. If the 30.8 is indeed 50k, that's gives much better flexibility.




Keith

Nelson did as nice job with the directly coupled front ends in the .8's increasing input impedance tremendously compared to the .5's rendering them far more accommodating to tubes generally.

 

[FlexibleAudio]

mep, read the actual measurements as impedance is an average quoted by manufacturer. the impedance in the bass is over 3,000 ohms.

Aesthetix Saturn Calypso line preamplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

I also was reading JA's tested impedance from the 60.5- which was 17k. If the 30.8 is indeed 50k, that's gives much better flexibility.




Keith

You always got to look at he whole frequency range to match impedance properly. The quoted average can be very dangerous. That's why many use a 30x impedance multiple when looking at the average as opposed to 10x for the peak frequency impedance. Either way Mep is right the Calypso will be keen with the .8's......the .5's not so much.

 

[XV-1]

Out of your choices I feel it may be a sideways step.

Spend a bit more cash and go a little up the chain

There are a couple of used Pass xp-20's on audiogon ATM. That would be my choice.

Use it and sell it if not happy without any real loss.

Cheers