When "good enough" is good enough

still-one said:
I hope I am reading your post correctly. I have no issues with anyone who is happy with their system just as it is. There have been many points along my audio journey where I was very happy with the sound quality and felt I had no need to upgrade/swap gear. Unfortunately (for me) the occasion would come present itself where I had the opportunity to audition different gear in my set-up. Audio is no different from any other technology, it does not stand still in a time warp. So if you are indicating that for 20 years you have been satisfied with your set-up and have no need to change, I take no issue with that. If you are stating that your reference system of 20 years has not been surpassed by more current products then I find that difficult to comprehend.
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No doubt.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Wait a minute.....this is a trick question, right? Finally satisfied??? Enough?? For many of us it goes against the concept of being an audio lover. We can't help ourselves. If I am not obsessing about audio I will just find another, probably less wholesome, occupant for my spare time.
(Good thing you can't snort gear.):crackedout::crackedout:
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....nothing like the smell of new speakers in the morning!!!
 
In the spirit of a man being truly happy when he is satisfied with less than they have; the real question seems to be "Would you be satisfied if you could never buy another another piece of equipment?"
 
still-one said:
So if you are indicating that for 20 years you have been satisfied with your set-up and have no need to change, I take no issue with that. If you are stating that your reference system of 20 years has not been surpassed by more current products then I find that difficult to comprehend.
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For me, being "truly satisfied" with my personal location in high end audio came when I could recognize that the above approach did not apply to me. In a subjective hobby, I do not accept that there are objective improvements in technology that correlate to "getting better sound." I respect that others feel differently, but that's how I shop for computers, not audio. I've heard too many examples of old technology wiping the floor with new stuff to get too wrapped up in the idea that JV *actually* reports a new benchmark in what is possible in home audio reproduction every 2 months in TAS.

That type of thinking has, in my opinion, allowed this hobby to devolve into something in which the purported state of the art can be redefined monthly (v3 speakers, higher up sampling rates, dsdx23, improved caps in the power supply leading to higher performance!). It is also now one in which the price of admission to this churning sea has now reached obscene territory for all but the 1%. For confirmation of that, one need only look at the various audio forums in which the 2 percenters sweat out the fact that Dan D'Agostino has found a way to redefine the state of the art and charge a x5 premium over last year's state of the art.

Thank goodness for the fact that recent years have also seen more possibilities than every before at the lower price points. To the point though, most everyone on this and similar forums question whether the sub 3k DAC offerings can possibly compete with the uber dacs, which, as pointed out in another recent thread, is a club so exclusive the comparatively cheap new statement dac from Boulder need not apply at 60k.

No. No thank you. My preferences are well established after too long a period of spending insane money chasing the upgrade bug. It is the road to hifi hell. My advice is to dispense with the notion that there can be an objective best, be leery of claimed "improvements," and find a sound that you love and tailor your system to it.

For those that chase the gains, I honestly wish you the best of luck, many hours of good, hopefully neurosis free, listening and very, very deep pockets.


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I stand by the section of my post that you have quoted in your response.

I wasn't trying to define or state there is a "best". I didn't say that the rapid rise in pricing in the hobby isn't insane. I didn't indicate that there are vast differences between a $3k and $60k DAC's etc. I also didn't say that some one with a $10k system cannot enjoy their set-up as much as the person with $400k invested.

I will re-state that I do not believe that "high end audio" is the only technology in the world that has stood still over the past 20 years.
 
still-one said:
I stand by the section of my post that you have quoted in your response.

I wasn't trying to define or state there is a "best". I didn't say that the rapid rise in pricing in the hobby isn't insane. I didn't indicate that there are vast differences between a $3k and $60k DAC's etc. I also didn't say that some one with a $10k system cannot enjoy their set-up as much as the person with $400k invested.

I will re-state that I do not believe that "high end audio" is the only technology in the world that has stood still over the past 20 years.
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Ok. My personal philosophy has simply caused me to evaluate my relationship to the idea of "improvement" as it relates to purported technological advances.


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kev313 said:
For me, being "truly satisfied" with my personal location in high end audio came when I could recognize that the above approach did not apply to me. In a subjective hobby, I do not accept that there are objective improvements in technology that correlate to "getting better sound." I respect that others feel differently, but that's how I shop for computers, not audio. I've heard too many examples of old technology wiping the floor with new stuff to get too wrapped up in the idea that JV *actually* reports a new benchmark in what is possible in home audio reproduction every 2 months in TAS.

That type of thinking has, in my opinion, allowed this hobby to devolve into something in which the purported state of the art can be redefined monthly (v3 speakers, higher up sampling rates, dsdx23, improved caps in the power supply leading to higher performance!). It is also now one in which the price of admission to this churning sea has now reached obscene territory for all but the 1%. For confirmation of that, one need only look at the various audio forums in which the 2 percenters sweat out the fact that Dan D'Agostino has found a way to redefine the state of the art and charge a x5 premium over last year's state of the art.

Thank goodness for the fact that recent years have also seen more possibilities than every before at the lower price points. To the point though, most everyone on this and similar forums question whether the sub 3k DAC offerings can possibly compete with the uber dacs, which, as pointed out in another recent thread, is a club so exclusive the comparatively cheap new statement dac from Boulder need not apply at 60k.

No. No thank you. My preferences are well established after too long a period of spending insane money chasing the upgrade bug. It is the road to hifi hell. My advice is to dispense with the notion that there can be an objective best, be leery of claimed "improvements," and find a sound that you love and tailor your system to it.

For those that chase the gains, I honestly wish you the best of luck, many hours of good, hopefully neurosis free, listening and very, very deep pockets.


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I think you have articulated your personal view very well and placed appropriate caveats as it relates to what others might believe. My only point would be to clarify that of course your feelings nor the price of gear have anything to do with whether improvements in audio have actually occurred in the last 20 years, be they measured subjectively or otherwise, by anyone except yourself. Others would obviously disagree with both your approach and the view that pursuit of audio perfection represents a "road to hi-fi hell". Many feel the opposite. But for you (and I am sure many others) it's wonderful.
 
kev313 said:
For me, being "truly satisfied" with my personal location in high end audio came when I could recognize that the above approach did not apply to me. In a subjective hobby, I do not accept that there are objective improvements in technology that correlate to "getting better sound." I respect that others feel differently, but that's how I shop for computers, not audio. I've heard too many examples of old technology wiping the floor with new stuff to get too wrapped up in the idea that JV *actually* reports a new benchmark in what is possible in home audio reproduction every 2 months in TAS.

That type of thinking has, in my opinion, allowed this hobby to devolve into something in which the purported state of the art can be redefined monthly (v3 speakers, higher up sampling rates, dsdx23, improved caps in the power supply leading to higher performance!). It is also now one in which the price of admission to this churning sea has now reached obscene territory for all but the 1%. For confirmation of that, one need only look at the various audio forums in which the 2 percenters sweat out the fact that Dan D'Agostino has found a way to redefine the state of the art and charge a x5 premium over last year's state of the art.

Thank goodness for the fact that recent years have also seen more possibilities than every before at the lower price points. To the point though, most everyone on this and similar forums question whether the sub 3k DAC offerings can possibly compete with the uber dacs, which, as pointed out in another recent thread, is a club so exclusive the comparatively cheap new statement dac from Boulder need not apply at 60k.

No. No thank you. My preferences are well established after too long a period of spending insane money chasing the upgrade bug. It is the road to hifi hell. My advice is to dispense with the notion that there can be an objective best, be leery of claimed "improvements," and find a sound that you love and tailor your system to it.

For those that chase the gains, I honestly wish you the best of luck, many hours of good, hopefully neurosis free, listening and very, very deep pockets.


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What a terrific post. Spot on. It reminds me of RMAF 2013 with that poor fellow who was building his own turntables. He couldn't find any company to supply him with speakers for his demo, so he boxed up his old RCA LC-1A LS-11 from the 1950's. Everyone that entered that room and heard his sweet sounding 300b amps and old RCA speakers didn't want to leave. I felt bad for the guy, no one gave a hoot about his turntable - they all wanted his speakers!

11.jpg


Just one correction in your post though....JV claims a new benchmark every 2 days, not 2 months. Must have been a typo I'm sure.
 
Mike said:
What a terrific post. Spot on. It reminds me of RMAF 2013 with that poor fellow who was building his own turntables. He couldn't find any company to supply him with speakers for his demo, so he boxed up his old RCA LC-1A LS-11 from the 1950's. Everyone that entered that room and heard his sweet sounding 300b amps and old RCA speakers didn't want to leave. I felt bad for the guy, no one gave a hoot about his turntable - they all wanted his speakers!

11.jpg


Just one correction in your post though....JV claims a new benchmark every 2 days, not 2 months. Must have been a typo I'm sure.
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His name is Win and his turntable company is called Saskia. Win is a cool guy and I wish he would come over here to AS and post.
 
mep said:
His name is Win and his turntable company is called Saskia. Win is a cool guy and I wish he would come over here to AS and post.
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He was a very nice gentleman, but he was getting frustrated that everyone kept asking about his speakers and not his turntable. I kept going back to this room myself. It sounded great.
 
Mike said:
He was a very nice gentleman, but he was getting frustrated that everyone kept asking about his speakers and not his turntable. I kept going back to this room myself. It sounded great.
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I was there at that show also and heard the setup. Those RCA speakers are rare and they are old which makes for a hot commodity for some people in this hobby who can only get stiff when they are looking at antiques. In hindsight, those speakers created a distraction from Win's table.
 
My consultant, Tim Marutani, whom I visit regularly, usually has the best sounding system around - top of the line Magicos, Aurender, PM Model Two, Constellation. which he fully tweaks And I get to hear Winston Ma's system pretty often, too. I know I am OK with my system when I come back from a listening session at Tim's or Winston's and I fire up my system and I am still happy. I know I have heard better at their places, but I am satisfied and emotionally moved by the sound of my system. I haven't changed speakers and amps in over a decade.

Larry
 
mep said:
I was there at that show also and heard the setup. Those RCA speakers are rare and they are old which makes for a hot commodity for some people in this hobby who can only get stiff when they are looking at antiques. In hindsight, those speakers created a distraction from Win's table.
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Those RCA LC1A speakers were made by Jeffrey Jackson of Emia / Experience Music / Hifi Heroin. That was his room (along with Slagle and Win). Cool guys. Coincidentally I suspect that he is also the Agon seller of that uber Shindo system.


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Check out this picture of RCA LC1A's (or are these LC1A's??) with Nagra electronics and the DCS stack.

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Not sure re: the speaker but the nagra pieces are (from left to right) mps power unit, 300p power amp, jazz preamp.
 
This looks great and may sound great. I've seen a trend of super expensive electronics mated to DIY, Vintage, Classic, and current bargain speakers.
 
I too have decided after years and years of upgrades to downgrade and be happy.......:)

kev313 said:
For me, being "truly satisfied" with my personal location in high end audio came when I could recognize that the above approach did not apply to me. In a subjective hobby, I do not accept that there are objective improvements in technology that correlate to "getting better sound." I respect that others feel differently, but that's how I shop for computers, not audio. I've heard too many examples of old technology wiping the floor with new stuff to get too wrapped up in the idea that JV *actually* reports a new benchmark in what is possible in home audio reproduction every 2 months in TAS.

That type of thinking has, in my opinion, allowed this hobby to devolve into something in which the purported state of the art can be redefined monthly (v3 speakers, higher up sampling rates, dsdx23, improved caps in the power supply leading to higher performance!). It is also now one in which the price of admission to this churning sea has now reached obscene territory for all but the 1%. For confirmation of that, one need only look at the various audio forums in which the 2 percenters sweat out the fact that Dan D'Agostino has found a way to redefine the state of the art and charge a x5 premium over last year's state of the art.

Thank goodness for the fact that recent years have also seen more possibilities than every before at the lower price points. To the point though, most everyone on this and similar forums question whether the sub 3k DAC offerings can possibly compete with the uber dacs, which, as pointed out in another recent thread, is a club so exclusive the comparatively cheap new statement dac from Boulder need not apply at 60k.

No. No thank you. My preferences are well established after too long a period of spending insane money chasing the upgrade bug. It is the road to hifi hell. My advice is to dispense with the notion that there can be an objective best, be leery of claimed "improvements," and find a sound that you love and tailor your system to it.

For those that chase the gains, I honestly wish you the best of luck, many hours of good, hopefully neurosis free, listening and very, very deep pockets.


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Jesus, this is like "old home week"- Puro, Mep, others here.
It is a very personal choice, i think, based on many of the factors already outlined by others- financial considerations, life priorities, expectations on what one hopes to achieve and one's perspective on what an "improvement" is, and whether that is something that ultimately proves to make the home reproduction more satisfying or is part of an endless quest for the last iota of detail, nuance or "accuracy." I do think the "high-end" has improved over the years (as it has gotten more costly), but apart from the 'cost/benefit' (which is a very individual thing depending on some of the above-mentioned factors), it becomes a quest unto itself. The bromide "just enjoy the music" ducks the question; what I learned, after I got my current system to a certain level, is that so much depends on the "source" and by source, I'm not talking about the particular component but the recording itself. (And for vinyl, the particular pressing, mastering, etc.). I still invest money in gear as necessary- i updated my phono cartridge, added more record cleaning equipment, but the vast majority of my time and energy is now devoted to the records themselves. (Granted, that can be a dead-end too- many folks who are deep record collectors and hugely knowledgeable have very mediocre playback equipment and treasure the records as artifacts, rather than as a medium to extract the content for listening). I guess you spend your time, money and energy on what makes you happy and keeps you interested; that's not for me to judge about others, but I've struck a balance for myself.
 
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