What's the most difficult instrument to most accurately reproduce in a system?

Mike

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What's the most difficult instrument to most accurately reproduce in a system?

Some say piano.
Some say violin.
Some say the human voice.

What do you say?

Thoughts?


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I would imagine piano. More people have been exposed to a real piano in an acoustic space.....so are familar with its true sound. We usually do not know the artist personally, and are not aware of what their voice actually sounds like. Just my two cents ??
 
that's a very good one.

first of all, what is meant by "accurately reproduce"?

is that what we hear in a concert, or does that mean "perfection" (what some studio engineers think they're doing...)?

to me a trumpet and a violin are one of the most difficult to record today. because these days the microphones are placed very close to the instrument for the main sound channel - it makes the instruments sound harsh.

to my ears the best recordings of these instruments were made in the mid "60.

concerning piano recordings: my favorites are also old recordings, with reduced dynamics, a not-so-wide stereo image and not giving me the idea that i'm sitting "in the piano".

to my ears (i played the piano myself for about 15 years) it is the most enjoyable and best way to listen to piano music for a longer time.
 
Drums

go to a live concert and hear the detail, depth, power and groove of a good drummer.

It never quite sounds as good at home.
 
I would say violin. Most recordings and systems do not capture the woody timbre of a live performance. Usually they sound like a glass box with strings. I was a cellist for many years.

Ken
 
Most recordings are woeful in capturing the true sound of live Instruments not to mention the dynamic compression necessary for playback due to systems being under powered and undersized for playback realism,

that said ,

Piano and drums for power and dynamics, violins and cello's for Timbre ...
 
I think it's the drum kit, not only because you need proper power to reproduce all the dynamics and nuances, but mostly because it's the hardest instrument to actually record right. There's a million ways to record a drum kit, but unfortunately, most bands/engineers/producers have given up on having them sound "real" in their recordings...
 
What's the most difficult instrument to most accurately reproduce in a system?

Some say piano.
Some say violin.
Some say the human voice.

What do you say?

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For me, it depends on the recording quality...
 
Along with piano, for me it's an instrument not yet mentioned, vibraphone. On bad systems, it tends to be blurry and unfocused. As with certain piano notes, some vibraphone notes are very difficult to get right. If your system can make vibe recordings sound natural, it is likely that your system makes great music, period.
 
I believe it is the piano. First the piano covers a range from ~30Hz to over ~4000Hz. Second, it is difficult to replicate the "body" of a piano in a recording.
 
I believe it is the piano. First the piano covers a range from ~30Hz to over ~4000Hz. Second, it is difficult to replicate the "body" of a piano in a recording.

I tend to agree...but also violin/Cello too. I believe I read that proper miking of the piano is difficult too.
 
I believe it is the piano. First the piano covers a range from ~30Hz to over ~4000Hz. Second, it is difficult to replicate the "body" of a piano in a recording.

I am also going to vote for piano because of the frequency range and the percussive-string-wood box thing it has going. Complicated and nuanced at the same time--like a woman. :cryforjoy:
 
Along with piano, for me it's an instrument not yet mentioned, vibraphone. On bad systems, it tends to be blurry and unfocused. As with certain piano notes, some vibraphone notes are very difficult to get right. If your system can make vibe recordings sound natural, it is likely that your system makes great music, period.

Compared to drums and piano, I think the vibraphone is very easy to get right. My system can do a startling playback of well recorded vibes. Even the most well recorded drum solo you have ever heard pales in comparison to standing next to a drum kit and hearing a drum kit being played live. If you have any doubts, you could pay any local drummer to arrive at your house for $200 (truth be told, $100), and ask him to play a 30 minute set in your house. It will only take 3 seconds for you to "get it."
 
Generally, I think a lot of decent speakers reproduce human voice well - well known ribbon speakers, well known stats, giant cones, good horns, etc. But when you play the piano things get more exposed. Crossovers are easily visible. The hardness of SS amps can sometimes be heard as compared to valves (unless you have extreeemely good SS amps). Sometimes it lacks the bass, sometimes, it sounds broken through the crossovers (e.g. Logan hybrids, which can do female vocals extremely well, cannot do piano).

Violins - again many of the speakers that do human voice well (e.g. stats do violins well when played with valves). But with violins, it is more easy to make out the difference between digital and vinyl. With trombone, it seems to be a combo of speaker bass integration and vinyl. Vivids do trombones very well.

With drums, I have never heard the bass impact of a tympani, or that of a kick drum, be produced like a restored apogee. Unfortunately most speakers produce a taut and tight bass, or on a dime bass. Classical bass is an impact in the vertical plane, towards you, a bit thick rather than taut, and it decays. Apogees create that vertical plane, rather than a woofer-from-below kind of sound. Till I heard this sound, I ignored drums somewhat. Most speakers if they went down low enough and had a big cabinet were equally good (or equally bad). DRC seemed to make a difference in cleaning the sound for drums, and controlling it.

I am just quoting what Ron Resnick wrote after his visit to Henk (the dutch apogee restorer) who, along, with Rich Murry of the US, are the two best restorers. He wrote about the Apogee Grands and compared the drums to those played with the Wilson Alexandria X2S2.

"Postscript: I visited Steve today to catch up with I'm before I go back to London. I brought with me a CD of the Genesis album with the “Drum Duet” track -- with Phil Collins playing the drum kit on the left side of the stage and his colleague playing a drum kit on the right side of the stage. (Henk very kindly gave me his CD of that album.)

When the track was finished at Henk’s place my wife and I turned to each other and each of us basically said “Oh my God, that was amazing!” So I was really curious to hear this drum track on Steve’s very full-range and bass capable system. (Steve supplements his big Wilsons with JL Audio Fathoms.)

On Steve’s system the drum track today was very good but it was not involving and mesmerizing like it was on Henk’s system. Listening to the drums on the Grands seemed to my wife and me like an experience.

This is absolutely no criticism of Steve’s system. As I have written many times I love the sound from Steve’s system. I am very confident what I heard from this track on the Grands versus on conventional cones means that Kedar was correct about the amazing bass reproduction on the Grands: the woofer panel on the Grands -- which covers about 70 Hz to about 250 Hz -- is the best reproducer of that frequency range I have ever heard in my life. I do not think any dynamic driver speaker -- not Wilsons, not Genesis woofer towers, not Pendragon woofer towers, not any set of cones -- is going to reproduce 70 Hz or so to 250 Hz or so with the articulation and realism and power of those big, trapezoidal woofer panels on the Grands."

I quoted Ron just because I believe that's true, and what I had been saying. I also sensed the same thing that he did on the Genesis drum duet when I played the Holst Planets Mars on the Grands
 
Drums hand down. After hearing live, unamplified drums in small venues, then hearing drums reproduced on a top notch system, I've never EVER thought 'that sounds like a real kit'. But every other contender (piano, voice, horns, strings, etc.) have approached 'fool me' levels over the years.
 
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