What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp

[Skanda]

rockna wavedream net with siganture dac. just incredible sound: detailed and flowing.

i would also agree with Mike re msb...i haven't tried msb in my system but every rig i've heard based on an msb source has had full bodied tone and exceptional space and staging.

regarding both the rockna and the msb, don't let the "full bodied" put you off - it did for me originally as i interpreted that as a lack of detail. the detail is there and easy to hear but you will probably find yourself so enchanted by the organic rendering of vocals that the micro details just wont matter all that much (my experience at least!)

 

[Audiophilehi]

Paul

In the end even after an upgrade to your digital you may still always prefer the sound of your analog rig as many do. It's going to come down to if you get it close will the convenience over time win out. You can start by exploring an upgrade on the streamer side with the Bryston and see what that gets you. I would stay with one of the major brands if re-sale is a concern. To me that would be the Auralic Aries G2, Innuous Zenith Mk III, Lumin U1 and whatever the comparable current Aurender model is. They all sound slightly different as they have different opinions about what things are most important but in the end it may be more important which model has the features, connections and software that you prefer. DACs are a more personal thing like speakers so unless you have the opportunity to try a bunch of them in your system from the local dealers you will have to find a sound profile that appeals to you from reviews or other audiophiles and chose from the models in that group. But in the end with the abundance of different models out there you can find a combo that appeals to you without the outlay of a top flight vinyl rig and gets you close but you may still be over five figures for the combo.

From my experience and at our level no server and DAC will outperform a turntable and phono - it is two completely different approaches, and both serve equal purposes, playing music.

Then comes the recording, IMO the most important attribute. Listening to an album produced and recorded in its native format should tell you what to select on you preamp for listening pleasure.

Personally I enjoy playing and listening to records since adding analog, but still play and enjoy my digital.



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I think you are both right. To me vinyl is just so much more natural and involving. The loudness wars don’t help the digit cause either. (Bring back the dynamics) My original post was to find out if there was such a digital combination out there that would rival or best vinyl. I’ve never had the opportunity to listen to the best digital has to offer in my system.

 

[Audiophilehi]

Paul

In the end even after an upgrade to your digital you may still always prefer the sound of your analog rig as many do. It's going to come down to if you get it close will the convenience over time win out. You can start by exploring an upgrade on the streamer side with the Bryston and see what that gets you. I would stay with one of the major brands if re-sale is a concern. To me that would be the Auralic Aries G2, Innuous Zenith Mk III, Lumin U1 and whatever the comparable current Aurender model is. They all sound slightly different as they have different opinions about what things are most important but in the end it may be more important which model has the features, connections and software that you prefer. DACs are a more personal thing like speakers so unless you have the opportunity to try a bunch of them in your system from the local dealers you will have to find a sound profile that appeals to you from reviews or other audiophiles and chose from the models in that group. But in the end with the abundance of different models out there you can find a combo that appeals to you without the outlay of a top flight vinyl rig and gets you close but you may still be over five figures for the combo.

From my experience and at our level no server and DAC will outperform a turntable and phono - it is two completely different approaches, and both serve equal purposes, playing music.

Then comes the recording, IMO the most important attribute. Listening to an album produced and recorded in its native format should tell you what to select on you preamp for listening pleasure.

Personally I enjoy playing and listening to records since adding analog, but still play and enjoy my digital.



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you have a solid vinyl rig....really pretty good depending on your set-up skills. so it will take a formidable digital set-up to even equal, or possibly take you further, musically. but with vinyl so much depends on your collection of pressings, and your intentions of pursuing top level performances and pressings. if you have lots of great sounding pressings, 45rpm and direct to disc pressings, and have good performances, digital ultimately can't quite touch that. no matter how good......and i know how good digital can get.

so your question is as much about what music you want to pursue, as your gear. digital has an unlimited access to lots of music. but it's not the best way to hear golden age classical, jazz and rock. so investing in high level digital is a commitment to the music best heard that way. or double down on the vinyl you want.

just my 2 cents.

i use MSB and would recommend the Reference level MSB for a dac, or the Premier if that is too rich.

for servers, i use the SGM Extreme and love it; it's fantastic but it's price is up there; so i would differ to others about more moderate priced servers. but if you want the best performing server.....that is the one i have and could not recommend it more highly. it will get digital closest to vinyl.

Thanks Mike....I do have some outstanding pressings and performances of almost every genre in my 4000 or so LP’s. My setup skills are ok being that I’ve been doing this for about 45 of my 62 years on the planet but I’m sure they could be better.

 

[Audiophilehi]

Finding a digital setup to "beat" the sound of a good LP rig is like trying to find an apple to beat the taste of an orange. The question would be better framed by asking what digital rig will bring you listening pleasure on a similar scale to what your analog rig brings you. I'm constantly amazed at how good digital can sound, but switching over to LP or tape always puts things back in perspective.

The one area that digital "beats" analog is the pure convenience of streaming. It's like having a digital jukebox that contains the music of the world and you control it all with your iPad. It still won't sound like analog, but it sure can be appreciated for how good it does sound.

Well said! That’s what I’m looking for. Is it out there? Will I have to take out a second mortgage to get there?

 

[Mike]

Well said! That’s what I’m looking for. Is it out there? Will I have to take out a second mortgage to get there?

No, not beat, but just as enjoyable. MSB Discrete.


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[Audiophilehi]

No, not beat, but just as enjoyable. MSB Discrete.


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Thanks Mike! I will definitely have to give the MSB Discrete a listen!!

 

[Alrainbow]

While I know msb is a great digital front end choice I have to say it’s a one trick pony of sorts
a lampizator be it TRP or GG2 or flagship PAC all roll tubes. And while this may seem complex it’s not and very needed. Above is a comment on the weight of music. Not too much or not too little. This is in part what makes the lampizator line up a Chamaeleon of sorts in sound scape.
When Myles of audionirvana was kind enough to come to my place. I Dialed in tjr stage he liked by a simple tube roll. there are many aspects to gdt our systems to be what we need or want. Tube rolling gives us this. once you get bitten by one tube roll and your music is all new again it’s near impossible to go back to a one sound digital front end. And I know some say there is only one correct sound but as we all know I’ll be picking it out not a company who feels this is best for me.

 

[Alpinist]

While I know msb is a great digital front end choice I have to say it’s a one trick pony of sorts

One trick pony? They are industry leading in every single area. Separate high-end digital and analog power supplies, in-house Femto clock technology, multiple in-house custom designed ladder DACs with custom cut resistors, in-house designed cutting-edge digital input modules that are Roon endpoints and even use proprietary optical connections. Their technology is years ahead of the competition.

Like calling Secretariat a one trick pony.

Ken

 

[Alrainbow]

A simple question.
Can you change the sound scape , stage width and depth ? Can you change the level of details , amount of weight ? For anyone who loves analog as I do you need a digital front end to vary for a given system. I owned an msb stack. I agree industry leader but it’s fixed or locked to a given sound by someone who feels it’s perfect for all. This leaves a given user to roll expense cables , preamps and so on. I’m not kicking msb but I am making a common sense conclusion.

 

[Mike]

You only change the sound of your DAC when you don’t love something. I never think about changing a thing with the MSB Select II playing. It’s perfect.


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[Golum]

A simple question.
Can you change the sound scape , stage width and depth ? Can you change the level of details , amount of weight ? For anyone who loves analog as I do you need a digital front end to vary for a given system. I owned an msb stack. I agree industry leader but it’s fixed or locked to a given sound by someone who feels it’s perfect for all. This leaves a given user to roll expense cables , preamps and so on. I’m not kicking msb but I am making a common sense conclusion.

Spot on question! Don't really see correlation between being an industry leader in all of the above (which might or might not be true but for the sake of argument let it be true) with having one single sound signature as an output, while some of the industry "followers" are giving you the option, as Al rightly said, to absolutely tweak the sound with simple tube change to your absolute liking while delivering phenomenal sound as such. Now, this may not be for everybody and that is perfectly fine, but lets not forget that customization in todays world is the thing.
In general - find your own drug based on your ears, as the pond is huge...and this kind of topics always end up badly.

 

[Alpinist]

I was into trying the different tonal shades of tubes when I owned my ARC Ref CD9 Player. Once I purchased the Select II DAC it was game over. While I could vary the tonality with the Ref CD9, there is a whole other level of realism with the Select II DAC, which no longer required tonal adjustment. It just sounded right. The search was over.

Ken

 

[Alrainbow]

Ken I see and agree to your point and while I don’t know you but do know how high a regard mike L and others have for you I get it.
my whole point is knowing what’s best for a given setup to start with. While you had tuned to how you feel and got the correct sound from msb. Many wander around like myself to get there. now that I have analog I now have moved my system towards this sound in tone , stage and weight. you and many actually know where to go at the start while many don’t.
I argued this point on many forums even ps audio when I owned it.
I even discussed this with Vince abating this at length too. Of course it’s all a point of view. Now regarding msb I agree it’s at a level that to some it’s locked sound is a very welcomed compromise. but ultra high end audio is a very complex beast to tame over all. People like mike and yourself as well as mike L have far more to know at the start.

 

[u-sound]

Their technology is years ahead of the competition.

Ken

everything they do was done by others years ago, even decades.
i would agree that they do an excellent package out of it.....at a price relative ahead of the competitiors.
that said, personally i would prefer your msb gear over analog.
most audiophiles do prefer analog, then again not all.

 

[still-one]

most audiophiles do prefer analog, then again not all[/B].

In my mind your statement is only true if your definition of what an Audiophile is narrow in scope

 

[u-sound]

you are right jim. i dont know excactely how to use the term "audiophiles".
i even dont know whether i am one of them myself.

lets say most people here around state that they do enjoy the sound of theyr turntables more than theyr digital playback.
and while i can deeply understand why and like analog myself, i do love that didital clearness and structure. sold my kuzma reference/fm accustic rig years ago. sounded incredible good and still havent missed it with one thought yet

 

[NekoAudio]

In my experience if someone is looking for a digital setup that sounds like the best analog (turntable) reproduction, it does usually mean looking for at least one or two different sound qualities than when one is looking for the best digital reproduction.

 

[Randy Myers]

I guess I will give the perspective of someone who owns more pedestrian gear. I have been building my digital setup since jumping back into this crazy hobby. Recently dipping my toe back into vinyl.

I enjoy both, but MEP's point of comparing Apples and Oranges is very much spot on. They both sound great, but definitely different. It really comes down to what mood I am in.

With that said I also believe you do not have to go to extreme levels to get very good digital. Yes, I would love a Lampi or MSB, but the T+A is pretty dang amazing and will top most anything in the $10k-$20k plus range for a DAC. Their higher models play on the same field as Lampi and MSB.

Yes I have heard fantastic things about the SGM servers... but starting at $18k for what is in essence a custom built computer.... if you are not afraid of computers you can build your own and if you concentrate on what makes a difference in digital performance you can get very very close, especially if you use software such as Roon and HQPlayer, or have a high end custom computer manufacture the base unit for you to your exacting desires at a fraction the price.

You can control the the digital system with a Roon controller device such as the iPad that was mentioned. I personally prefer an Android or my favorite which is a Microsoft Surface Pro 6!!!

 

[Kuoppis]

I tried it but never gave it any real time as I should at some point, but right now it’s very tough to beat in its current state. Maybe Kuoppis has?

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I find the streamer in the Nyquist pretty good, have good experiences with Aurender (N100H) as well though.

But as a DAC the Nyquist significantly betters the A10.

When adding the Nyquist, I also switched to Roon on a Synology NAS. Prefer that to the Nyquist/ Aurender combo due to better transparency. But that might also be system dependent, and some might enjoy the added slight warmth of the Aurender.

As to the original question, I do have a very good digital system, and an even more pricey analog setup. I do enjoy both equally. But with my restless mind listening to analog is more relaxing, as I cannot jump between the tracks so much [emoji3].

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[still-one]

I
But with my restless mind listening to analog is more relaxing, as I cannot jump between the tracks so much [emoji3].

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It is exactly the opposite for me. I get restless even thinking about playing vinyl knowing I have to get up at least every 20 minutes to flip the record. Twenty minutes is the maximum considering I am forced to either listen to shitty tracks on virtually every release or get up and skip over them. Much easier to do with a digital front end. Life too short to listen to crappy music.