What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

Joseph R.

Joseph R.

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I have heard many class “D” amplifiers. To these ears, they all sounded inferior. Over and over, proud owners compare them to their ‘old’ single ended, class A or class AB amplifiers with perplexing results. They consistanly cannot compare. I have even seen audiophiles replace their great sounding traditional amps with these switching compacts.

Why are so many audiophiles willing to go backwards in sound quality ? Why are so many audiophiles embracing this technology ? I honestly don’t understand it. It’s a real head scratcher. 🤔
 
Joseph R. said:
I have heard many class “D” amplifiers. To these ears, they all sounded inferior. Over and over, proud owners compare them to their ‘old’ single ended, class A or class AB amplifiers with perplexing results. They consistanly cannot compare. I have even seen audiophiles replace their great sounding traditional amps with these switching compacts.

Why are so many audiophiles willing to go backwards in sound quality ? Why are so many audiophiles embracing this technology ? I honestly don’t understand it. It’s a real head scratcher. [emoji848]
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I had a pair of Class D Wyred 4 Sound Sx1000 monoblocks, I loved the prodigious bass but found them sterile , hard and almost muted in the high treble.
In the end I sold them, I partially regret that move because bi amping might have worked well .

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Joseph R. said:
I have heard many class “D” amplifiers. To these ears, they all sounded inferior. Over and over, proud owners compare them to their ‘old’ single ended, class A or class AB amplifiers with perplexing results. They consistanly cannot compare. I have even seen audiophiles replace their great sounding traditional amps with these switching compacts.

Why are so many audiophiles willing to go backwards in sound quality ? Why are so many audiophiles embracing this technology ? I honestly don’t understand it. It’s a real head scratcher. 樂
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What class D have you heard, not all are the same, just as not all class A or AB are innately the best? I have Mola Mola Kaluga’s which have seen off anything else in class D or AB. I also know someone who changed from A Soulution 710 ( considered as SOTA by some) to MM Kaluga’s because they were more powerful, controlled his speakers better and produced a better musical experience. So my suggestion is keep an open mind on this and listen to the MM before condemning all class D.
 
My take on class D is very simple. Since I never heard one I liked, I simply don’t like them. My mind is never closed on anything. Until I hear a good one however, my mind will remain unchanged. Isn’t it strange that what deangale123 heard is exactly what I heard ?
 
Joseph R. said:
My take on class D is very simple. Since I never heard one I liked, I simply don’t like them. My mind is never closed on anything. Until I hear a good one however, my mind will remain unchanged. Isn’t it strange that what deangale123 heard is exactly what I heard ?
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You didn’t answer my question. What class D amps are you referring to?
 
Because Class 'D' amplifiers can be inexpensive, small and energy efficient it's a rapidly developing technology. In everything from hearing aids and up.

It's hard for an audiophile to forget old poor Class 'D' amps when listening to new designs.
 
Yea....I read the audiophilereview article, and remain skeptical. In my 50 years in this hobby, I have read hundreds (maybe thousands) of these ‘breakthrough technology’ reviews. The proof remains in the listening. I have heard the Hypex ncore amps and remain underwhelmed. Yes I embraced digital audio, but do not kid myself in believing it’s present configuration could ever achieve the sound quality of great analog turntables. Or great reel-to-reel for that matter.

I have nothing against audiophiles that love class D. It is your hobby as well, and whatever floats your boat is perfectly fine with me. OTOH I try to remain as true to myself as possible, and am not easily swayed. If it sounds good, great. If it doesn’t sound good say so. To me class D has many advantages. Sounding good is not one of them.

PS: Yes I heard the Kii.
 
Sticking to good 'ole Class A for now but fully realizing technology does not stand still and would not be surprised if the new Class D amps surpass Class A in the near future as the article that I posted earlier alludes to. The PS Audio Class D Stellar M700 monoblocks at $2900 were reviewed very favorably by the way.
 
alto said:
What class D have you heard, not all are the same, just as not all class A or AB are innately the best? I have Mola Mola Kaluga’s which have seen off anything else in class D or AB. I also know someone who changed from A Soulution 710 ( considered as SOTA by some) to MM Kaluga’s because they were more powerful, controlled his speakers better and produced a better musical experience. So my suggestion is keep an open mind on this and listen to the MM before condemning all class D.
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Just a quick question and of course you don't have to answer did you pay the recommended retail of $16000 grand for them ?
I had a quick read and a look inside and please don't take this the wrong way but seriously $2500 of parts, switched mode power supply which I despise and they want how much ? I opened up my Wyred 4 sound Sx1000's and they looked identical ( apparently he consulted on the design) , granted the capacitors might have been upgraded . I'd love to hear them though .

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What about Devialet? Didn’t they get unbelievable reviews? That’s a class D amp. I recall a reviewer saying they were almost as good as his Soulution amps


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Phishphan said:
What about Devialet? Didn’t they get unbelievable reviews? That’s a class D amp. I recall a reviewer saying they were almost as good as his Soulution amps


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Good question. Devialet developed a Class A-D hybrid topology.




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Mike said:
Good question. Devialet developed a Class A-D hybrid topology.




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I believe its the same class A input stage with class D output stage. Between, Soulution uses switch mode power supply.
 
Joseph R. said:
My take on class D is very simple. Since I never heard one I liked, I simply don’t like them. My mind is never closed on anything. Until I hear a good one however, my mind will remain unchanged. Isn’t it strange that what deangale123 heard is exactly what I heard ?
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I had the W4S Amps earlier as well and didn't like it at all. So I am not surprised about some of the Class D amps can leave you high and dry. Just like @alto asked, I would also like to know what Class D amps have you compared to what Class A/AB amps ?
 
Phishphan said:
What about Devialet? Didn’t they get unbelievable reviews? That’s a class D amp. I recall a reviewer saying they were almost as good as his Soulution amps


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Yes it was Jeff who compared Devialet to Soulution. I can only tell you I love the Mola Mola Kaluga amps. So much so I have 2 pairs in 2 separate systems...

Think Devialet sounds good/great? Hear Mola Mola...it’s in a whole ‘nother realm...


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It is ignorant to suggest that all class D amplifiers sound the same. Just as it would be ignorant to suggest that all class A amplifiers are amazing sounding. Amplifier class of operation does not have much of anything to do with the sound. A talented designer can achieve the same sound regardless of amplifier class. Bruno Putzeys has designed class A amplifiers, and class D amplifiers, and as he says, amplifiers do not sound good (or bad) because they are class D.
One of the best systems I have ever heard, just happened to have a pair of class D amplifiers, driving Vivid Audio Giya speakers... I have heard most of the famous class A and A/B amps, PASS, Constellation, Big VTLs and ARCs, Soulution, Vitus etc, etc. There is nothing missing with the best of the latest generation of class D amplifiers (except noise and distortions). Different amps sound different from each other. But anyone who decides how amps sound by their class of operation, these days, is stuck in the past and telegraphing their responses.
I am happy not to have to deal with ancient, wasteful, distorted, overly large and heavy amplifiers of the past, and embrace the technology and work of really smart designers like Mr. Putzeys.
Although I am not a fan of blind listening tests in general, I would suggest that those who feel like the best class D amps of today do not measure up, do a blind comparison of the Mola Molas vs. the Solid State amplifier of their choice at the same price, as their is clearly a case of some kind of bias going on here.
This reminds of all the other audiophile myths I have been trying to overcome in my own thinking: feedback is bad, IC Opamps are always worse than discrete circuits, analog is better than digital, etc.
 
barrows said:
It is ignorant to suggest that all class D amplifiers sound the same. Just as it would be ignorant to suggest that all class A amplifiers are amazing sounding. Amplifier class of operation does not have much of anything to do with the sound.
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No need for name calling here. I did no such thing and expect the same courtesy. I respectfully disagree. Class of amplifier has everything to do with the sound of an amplifier. Just as feedback has significant impact on sound quality. I never suggested that all class D amplifiers sound the same. I only said I never heard a class D amplifier sound good. That does not mean that I never will. In my opinion, this technology is being pushed for no good audiophile reason. If you like it, great. I don’t. I have seen many amplifier classes come and go. I have also owned a few (class H). But most did not stand the test of time. I have also seen great technology like ST glass go away. I cannot control the audio marketplace. I can only support the technology I think sounds the best.
 
I really like my Devialet Pro 220 which is hybrid Class A/D. A little dry but excellent sound definition and separation. Given that it has a built in DAC and streamer and is hardware and software upgradeable, I think it produces top quality sound for the price. It just didn’t pair well with my fairly low-sensitive Magico s3 mk2s - not enough current to get the best out of them. If paired with more highly sensitive or less neutral speakers I think it would sound fantastic, although I do prefer the richer sound and speed /slam/attack of my Diablo. I have been thinking of selling my Devialet but I am now seriously thinking of keeping it for my other pad and perhaps buying some Dynaudio Contour 20s or even the new Sonus Faber Guarneri to pair with it in what will be a small-ish room.
 
Class D is a very complex technology with pwm, filtering etc. - to me in fact it's a miracle it sounds good in the first place.

It's very energy efficient and f.e. hypex offers cheap moduls with amazing power:

https://www.hypexshop.com/shop/shop.jsp?groupID=116

It can't be that bad: Mark Levinson uses Hypex modules for his new amps: https://www.danielhertz.com/

Some companies offer amps with > 1.000 Watt and low destortion for about $500,-

There are different technologies - each with their own character.

We all hear different, depending on hearing abilities, taste, experiences and expectations - So some might like the sound, some may not.

If you like the sound, you're lucky - because you can get amazing power for a minimal budget.

Cheers.
 
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