WBF Insanity

Here is one thing I know and that is none of us have the real facts of the financial relationships over there, but neither does it really matter anyway. In the grand scheme of this hobby, the money it takes to start a forum is less than peanuts and the value of a forum if you could sell it to someone is worth just about the same. The money you put out upfront is the yearly cost of the software to run the forum and the cost of the ISP who is hosting your forum. The recurring costs you incur every month/year for the ISP and the software don't add to the value of the forum if you choose to sell it just as you don't get to inflate the cost of a used car you are selling because you put gas in it for years and kept the maintenance up on it. The last I knew, all mods work for free and if you had to pay them they would be a liability for the sale because these forums usually don't generate any revenue.

This fight is all about ego in my opinion. Who cares if you own something worth $2K or less and you want to fight about it and threaten lawsuits that will cost you far more than the intrinsic worth of what you are fighting over? I would value my sanity at more than $2k and just start another forum if that was my goal in life.
 
Mark, it's just a sad state of affairs at the We Bicker Forum.

It's supposed to be a fun hobby.


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Ok guys I am going to look at the WBF debacle in a glass half full light. At least they have a tremendous amount of passion for their forum.
 
Mike-Agreed it is a sad state of affairs, but the boiler has been stoked for a long time now and has reached a full head of steam. The biggest mouths on that forum are all of the guys with the worst stereo systems and they wouldn't know great sound from a desktop computer system. 99.9% of the "objectivists" who claim they love them some measurements and all purchasing decisions should be made after double blind tests/unsighted listening tests are conducted after they have exhumed the bones of Julian Hirsch and propped him up in the corner of the listening room are full of crap. Many of them are clueless on how to interpret measurements but want to be part of the objectivist gang. And I would bet money that not one of them has ever bought any stereo component based on unsighted listening tests so they are all just a bunch of hypocritical sanctimonious windbags just like politicians. It's all crap, but the crap never ends and they just keep the endless supply of crap in the air and thrown around.
 
nc42acc said:
Ok guys I am going to look at the WBF debacle in a glass half full light. At least they have a tremendous amount of passion for their forum.
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No, they have a tremendous passion for arguing. If locked threads were like jail cells at a maximum security prison, WBF would have more locked jail cells.
 
The funny thing about that post, Mark, is that by all accounts Julian Hirsch was a full-on subjectivist in his private life and with his personal stereo system. He just thought that measurements were better for Stereo Review's image (and of course to advertisers as well).

I would disagree that it's "all" about ego, except for the s__tstirrers; most of the interesting posters there (who are mostly here too, for that matter) just want to discuss music and stereo stuff in a positive way. I have no problems with disagreement, but I really don't want to get continually bashed over the head with it, especially by know-nothings.
 
rbbert said:
The funny thing about that post, Mark, is that by all accounts Julian Hirsch was a full-on subjectivist in his private life and with his personal stereo system. He just thought that measurements were better for Stereo Review's image (and of course to advertisers as well).

I would disagree that it's "all" about ego, except for the s__tstirrers; most of the interesting posters there (who are mostly here too, for that matter) just want to discuss music and stereo stuff in a positive way. I have no problems with disagreement, but I really don't want to get continually bashed over the head with it, especially by know-nothings.
Click to expand...

Rob-Julian Hirsch was famous for saying that if components measured the same they sounded the same. I'm pretty sure he is the father of "all amplifiers sound the same." As for WBF, the only thing that puzzles me is why the really good people haven't left yet and leave WBF to those who helped it burn down to the ground.
 
Mike...If they come here, they need to be tattooed first, like a knife cut into the forehead as executed by Brad Pitt in that awesome movie. :trouble:
 
Steve said:
Mike...If they come here, they need to be tattooed first, like a knife cut into the forehead as executed by Brad Pitt in that awesome movie. :trouble:
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Some of the good people already post here. Mike is smart enough to weed out the riff-raff.
 
mep said:
Rob-Julian Hirsch was famous for saying that if components measured the same they sounded the same. I'm pretty sure he is the father of "all amplifiers sound the same." ...
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That was his public and business persona. I remember both reading and hearing first-hand accounts of his home systems, listening habits and non-public opinions, and they were far different.
 
rbbert said:
That was his public and business persona. I remember both reading and hearing first-hand accounts of his home systems, listening habits and non-public opinions, and they were far different.
Click to expand...

Do tell what components made up his home system if you know. I thought TAS wrote an article about his basement system once upon a time and it wasn't pretty.
 
It's appearing that the major disputation of the moment, being locked out, is a storm in a teacup; lack of communication and mistakes are underlying this issue ...
 
mep said:
Do tell what components made up his home system if you know. I thought TAS wrote an article about his basement system once upon a time and it wasn't pretty.
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I wish I remembered, but it was close to 40 years ago. I do remember being absolutely astonished by the narrations, though.
 
fas42 said:
It's appearing that the major disputation of the moment, being locked out, is a storm in a teacup; lack of communication and mistakes are underlying this issue ...
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They have you locked too don't they??
 
No, it's not clear how it happened, but myself and opus111, now opus112, and apparently Ethan are back on board - only Ethan hasn't posted anything since ...
 
rbbert said:
The funny thing about that post, Mark, is that by all accounts Julian Hirsch was a full-on subjectivist in his private life and with his personal stereo system. He just thought that measurements were better for Stereo Review's image (and of course to advertisers as well).

I would disagree that it's "all" about ego, except for the s__tstirrers; most of the interesting posters there (who are mostly here too, for that matter) just want to discuss music and stereo stuff in a positive way. I have no problems with disagreement, but I really don't want to get continually bashed over the head with it, especially by know-nothings.
Click to expand...

Well I met the man and that is not the case. Know what he said to me about cables? They make good antennas for my tuner. Julian used whatever he was given for free.
 
comes down to the fact there wasn't mutual respect among the subjectivist vs. objectivity positions over there. the forum became a bunch of armchair engineers that had such indoctrinated opinions there was no common ground. if you weren't a digital, class D, speakers with "best parts" or "Harmon method" guy - you were ridiculed. frequency response graphs took the place of ears due to the holier than thou crowd that worships at the THD pedestal. as someone who reads and enjoys measurements, but uses them in context with his ears, it was a disappointment. unfortunately it started at the top.
 
mep said:
Mike-Agreed it is a sad state of affairs, but the boiler has been stoked for a long time now and has reached a full head of steam. The biggest mouths on that forum are all of the guys with the worst stereo systems and they wouldn't know great sound from a desktop computer system. 99.9% of the "objectivists" who claim they love them some measurements and all purchasing decisions should be made after double blind tests/unsighted listening tests are conducted after they have exhumed the bones of Julian Hirsch and propped him up in the corner of the listening room are full of crap. Many of them are clueless on how to interpret measurements but want to be part of the objectivist gang. And I would bet money that not one of them has ever bought any stereo component based on unsighted listening tests so they are all just a bunch of hypocritical sanctimonious windbags just like politicians. It's all crap, but the crap never ends and they just keep the endless supply of crap in the air and thrown around.
Click to expand...

Love it as "like" isn't enough [emoji6]
 
KeithR said:
comes down to the fact there wasn't mutual respect among the subjectivist vs. objectivity positions over there. the forum became a bunch of armchair engineers that had such indoctrinated opinions there was no common ground. if you weren't a digital, class D, speakers with "best parts" or "Harmon method" guy - you were ridiculed. frequency response graphs took the place of ears due to the holier than thou crowd that worships at the THD pedestal. as someone who reads and enjoys measurements, but uses them in context with his ears, it was a disappointment. unfortunately it started at the top.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a bunch of egotistical tossers professing their mid-fi basement insecurities.
 
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