Tube vs. Solid State Pre Amp

I hooked the Ampzilla up tonight. Wanted to give it a little play time before the STP-SE arrives tomorrow... Boy, I got to say this really is a fantastic amplifier... I forgot just how good it's imaging is... all kinds of guts (using nice terms)... just a sweet sounding amplifier...

I think it is only a matter of time before people start realizing what an amazing amplifier this is... the TAS Editor's Choice Award it just received won't hurt either...
 
OK, folks, my question is answered. I auditioned the VTL 5.5 II pre amp and that was about all there was. For my ears, it solved the issue I wanted resolved, the harshness of the upper end with the ML No. 38. Plus, I was able to remove some of the Roomtunes and the sound remained clear, sweet, not at all harsh.

Another difference, is the room seems filled with sound, not broken into discrete little pieces. More like a concert hall than a recording studio which is dead. Or, closer, IMO, to a live performance.
For those tube fans out there, I suspect you know what I am talking about. But for me, having never had tubes in my own system, only heard them in another less tuned system, i.e., a $50,000 set up 25 years ago, my old impression was they did not give the subtitles of the human voice. However, what I have now, so delicately detailed yet no harshness, this is close to the ultimate, once again, my ears, my opinion.

Once I catch my breath from this outlay of cash, I will be thinking of replacing the No. 27.5. Tubes or solid state, golly, more questions. I suppose if anyone has an opinion on this, i am all ears.... no pun intended......LOL

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It made my decision so much easier.
 
Totem likes some current, if you must replace the power amp I recommend solid state for that reason. You should take a listen to Pass Labs. Now though there are tubes like kt120 & 150 that I've not experienced in a system. I've also heard a 40 watt Octave integrated drive a set of Dynaudio Confidence 4's pretty well, so tubes may not be totally out of the equation. There is also those who have had good results matching a tube pre to Class D power.

A lot also depends on your taste in music and listening habits. Although I loved my tubes I find myself enjoying the transient response of solid state on Rock and higher energy Jazz preferable. There's tube amps out there now that probably have better transients than my CJ had but you'll find good tube power amps for equal power are very expensive comparatively to SS or Class D.

Msmoto said:
OK, folks, my question is answered. I auditioned the VTL 5.5 II pre amp and that was about all there was. For my ears, it solved the issue I wanted resolved, the harshness of the upper end with the ML No. 38. Plus, I was able to remove some of the Roomtunes and the sound remained clear, sweet, not at all harsh.

Another difference, is the room seems filled with sound, not broken into discrete little pieces. More like a concert hall than a recording studio which is dead. Or, closer, IMO, to a live performance.
For those tube fans out there, I suspect you know what I am talking about. But for me, having never had tubes in my own system, only heard them in another less tuned system, i.e., a $50,000 set up 25 years ago, my old impression was they did not give the subtitles of the human voice. However, what I have now, so delicately detailed yet no harshness, this is close to the ultimate, once again, my ears, my opinion.

Once I catch my breath from this outlay of cash, I will be thinking of replacing the No. 27.5. Tubes or solid state, golly, more questions. I suppose if anyone has an opinion on this, i am all ears.... no pun intended......LOL

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It made my decision so much easier.
Click to expand...
 
I just got my STP-SE pre-amplifier back from my buddy. What an amazing sounding unit. Currently using it with the ARC but will try it with the Ampzilla later on.... In my opinion EJ's two finest pieces.
 
Interestingly enough, my first thoughts are that I would have to have something like 150 watt mono blocks to satisfy the Totems if I were going the tube route.

There is one amp I have access to which just might have the current capabilities to drive the Totems well, enough head room for a car to drive through, the Plinius SB-301. This would be putting out about 400 watts a side into 6 ohms. And, some folks have heard this amp sound very "tube like" if this is possible.

My music tastes run from full orchestral pieces...Henryk Gorecki to Leo Kottke, throw in Amanda McBroom, The Tenors, a bit of Cannonball Adderley, Sarah Brightman, Jewel, The Eagles, Heart, David Ball....on and on. My favorite staging pieces are on Roger Water's Amused to Death, the first and last tracks. Oh, golly, Virgil Fox, Ton Koopman on organs.... now this is where one needs the power. With my sub which hits 20 Hz measured..... the house is shaking, like sixth row at a live organ concert. A "happening" as Virgil might say.

My methodology for equipment is to attempt to listen, but this is almost always with great difficulties as all sound rooms are different, and getting the equipment into my space is not often easy. So, I read reviews, like someone describing a ballet, not a lot of help, but this can perk up my interest in a particular piece of equipment, thus encouraging the actual listening experience. Mostly I read reviews of what is suggested on these forums, a starting place at least.

So, the Plinius will be the next audition, and if it proves to be a nice improvement, OMG, more cash out the door.... One fact, or alternative fact whatever your pleasure, is, I cannot imagine what improvement could be made. Possibly bringing my soundstage forward...something which the VTL 5.5 did to a great extent. I like having the voices in my lap, sonically, that is.

OK, appreciate all the help. Will check in when I have more progress to report.
 
Tommie, another 'Plinny' fan here, I have the SA-102 driving my Revel Studio 2's. I also use a pair of Rogue M-180 (tube) mono blocks when the mood strikes, great amps. Check out Rogue Audio when you get a chance, great products at affordable prices IMO.
 
If we are going to start suggesting amplifier brands to consider you would be doing yourself a favor considering the new SST Son Of Ampzilla II. The last design by an audio design legend, hall of fame member, and finished by a young audio design genius :)....

This thread here on the Shark is fairly revealing... http://www.audioshark.org/amplifiers-8/benchmark-ahb2-7408.html (read the entire thread)

And the issue of TAS that just came out gave it an Editor's Choice Award... certainly worthy of consideration.... being hand built in the US (Atascadero California) and backed with a five year warranty does not hurt either...
 
I've not heard Plinius but lot's of good feedback. Maybe the dealer will give you a home audition which would be great, your own system and room. Let me know how it goes when you get a listen.

The older Levinson has that presentation that puts you further back in the venue, that can be difficult to get used to.

Msmoto said:
Interestingly enough, my first thoughts are that I would have to have something like 150 watt mono blocks to satisfy the Totems if I were going the tube route.

There is one amp I have access to which just might have the current capabilities to drive the Totems well, enough head room for a car to drive through, the Plinius SB-301. This would be putting out about 400 watts a side into 6 ohms. And, some folks have heard this amp sound very "tube like" if this is possible.

My music tastes run from full orchestral pieces...Henryk Gorecki to Leo Kottke, throw in Amanda McBroom, The Tenors, a bit of Cannonball Adderley, Sarah Brightman, Jewel, The Eagles, Heart, David Ball....on and on. My favorite staging pieces are on Roger Water's Amused to Death, the first and last tracks. Oh, golly, Virgil Fox, Ton Koopman on organs.... now this is where one needs the power. With my sub which hits 20 Hz measured..... the house is shaking, like sixth row at a live organ concert. A "happening" as Virgil might say.

My methodology for equipment is to attempt to listen, but this is almost always with great difficulties as all sound rooms are different, and getting the equipment into my space is not often easy. So, I read reviews, like someone describing a ballet, not a lot of help, but this can perk up my interest in a particular piece of equipment, thus encouraging the actual listening experience. Mostly I read reviews of what is suggested on these forums, a starting place at least.

So, the Plinius will be the next audition, and if it proves to be a nice improvement, OMG, more cash out the door.... One fact, or alternative fact whatever your pleasure, is, I cannot imagine what improvement could be made. Possibly bringing my soundstage forward...something which the VTL 5.5 did to a great extent. I like having the voices in my lap, sonically, that is.

OK, appreciate all the help. Will check in when I have more progress to report.
Click to expand...
 
As it turns out, I can audition an sb-301 which has a few hundred hours on it..thus I will get the full effect. My intentions are not so much to improve anything, but simply to bring what I have more up to date. And, what I have read about the Plinius is pretty good.

My current configuration, speakers about 7 feet apart, listening spot 9 feet back, has a sound stage with orchestral works of roughly 18 - 20 feet wide, yet solo voices are spot on, not blurred in anyway. I have a very real sense of depth fore and aft as well, especially with small groups. Isolation of piano, drums, horns, strings, very nicely accomplished.

This has been arrived at after about twenty or thirty speaker positions, moving an inch or so at a time.

Thus, improvement will be difficult to achieve, but a sense of more head room for the speakers, this may turn out to be the primary improvement.

My mind also gets in the way, suggesting to me that it is all smoke and mirrors, even when it is my own...LOL

Having just finished Henryk Gorecki's Symphony No. 3, Opus 36.... cannot imagine it getting any more beautiful. But we will see.
 
And, now the decision.....

My audition of the Plinius SB-301.... very nice, a bit warmer than my ML No. 27.5, but only marginally so. IMO, not worth the switch at big bucks. I am concluding i have either an exceptional No. 27.5, or the combination of interconnects, FLAC files as source, the Pro-Ject turntable, whatever, is working so as to give me the warmest possible sound from my current configuration.

And, so now, the VTL S200.... tried with both Moderate and Lo damping factor, both triode and tetrode mode.....the results.... Lo damping factor seemed to give an overall brightness to the Totems, maybe a bit warmer than the ML 27.5, but not appreciably so. With moderate damping factor... driving the 4 ohm Totems became a phenomenal experience. Exactly what I was looking for in the mid and upper mid range. This removed the grit from Ruthie Henshall, George Jones, and Willie Nelson while retaining the excellent detail inherent in all these voices. At the same time i felt I was hearing a more tightly controlled low end as well. Have as yet to figure out the exact difference between tetrode and triode as I did not know which was in.

While a novice in all this high end audio stuff.... that is I really do not know if it is all smoke and mirrors or if I am actually hearing these subtleties, I think the suggestion that matching a VTL pre amp and amp is somewhat of an advantage as Bea and the gang must know at least a bit of what they are doing. In any case, the VTL S200 will replace the ML 27.5.

Now, more questions....about the tubes in the S200.... if any thoughts about this are possible, would love to hear these. First, the pre amp tubes in the S200, 12AT7 and 12BH7... 2 each. Any thoughts about these? Recommendations? And, the eight amplifier or power tubes, 6550 or KT-88. Which are the best and for what reasons? Brands? Gold pins?

Open ears are listening.....thanks, Tommie

 
Awesome and glad you found what you are looking for!

I am working through similar things as you, learning and discovering, etc. I am liking having both a tube amp and a solid state to switch back and forth. I do not like the playing around and worrying about biasing tube amps :(... and I am thinking that something like the ARC VT80 will probably be my destination amp :)...
 
Tommie, with regards to tubes, both signal and power, listen through your stock supplied tubes for awhile to establish your 'benchmark' before you start the rolling game. Get your self acquainted with other owners of like equipment so as to feel out their opinions, touch base with some reliable vendors. For me Jim McShane has never let me down, here's his link ........

http://www.mcshanedesign.net
 
Several thoughts on the VTL Signature S200 amp.... adjustable damping factor, automatic tube biasing, and easily switched from tetrode to triode, simply push a button and the amp goes through its own electronically protected switching process. Wonderful convenience, it makes the change from a dynamic boom-boom listening to a softer warmer presentation so easy.

Damping factor changes, these require complete shut down, cooling off, and very carefully opening the cabinet. I did it with a very delicate wooden paddle, being extremely careful to not touch any of the tubes. When I told my dealer what I had done during the audition, he got a bit excited about me going into his amp, but I reassured him .... probably mumbling something about replacing the tube i knocked over....LOL...tooo funny.

This tetrode/triode switching ease is only on their Signature Series, not on the less expensive amps in VTL's line-up, however.
 
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