How about a Cary 05 preamp? To me it has a wonderful sound, the speed of a SS but, some of the bloom tubes. The Mcintosh C2600 is a nice piece also as well as the Mcintosh C500. A person on another board has the Cary 05 and is going to be trying out a Mcintosh C500. I am kind of excited to read about that shootout. Love the nursing home room LOL looks great!
Tube vs. Solid State Pre Amp
- Thread starter Msmoto
- Start date
"What I am seeking is a softening, warming of the mid and highs as the "digital" sound with the current configuration is not the perfection i have in mind. "
If your happy with most of the sound of your system, the Blue Sound Vault also might the issue. How about a Lumin instead? I had a Node2 on load for a little bit. The Node is basically the vault without the hard drive and ripper. When I did a shootout between my Laptop, Node2 and CD using the Node digital out to the same dac the CD and Laptop were connected to, my wife and I both put the Node2 last on sound quality, stage presence, texture, and overall sound balance. I am not trying to sound harsh but just sharing my experience.
On your signature, in my opinion the Vault would be the weak point. Also the Vault rips to flac. Not everyone will agree with this but, I have noticed uncompressed wav has more open and air to it. The gap does close quite a bit on Uncompressed FLAC vs Uncompressed Wav but you would need something like DBpoweramp software to rip it uncompressed.
Sorry to derail the preamp portion but your quote above kind of puts me in a different direction.
If your happy with most of the sound of your system, the Blue Sound Vault also might the issue. How about a Lumin instead? I had a Node2 on load for a little bit. The Node is basically the vault without the hard drive and ripper. When I did a shootout between my Laptop, Node2 and CD using the Node digital out to the same dac the CD and Laptop were connected to, my wife and I both put the Node2 last on sound quality, stage presence, texture, and overall sound balance. I am not trying to sound harsh but just sharing my experience.
On your signature, in my opinion the Vault would be the weak point. Also the Vault rips to flac. Not everyone will agree with this but, I have noticed uncompressed wav has more open and air to it. The gap does close quite a bit on Uncompressed FLAC vs Uncompressed Wav but you would need something like DBpoweramp software to rip it uncompressed.
Sorry to derail the preamp portion but your quote above kind of puts me in a different direction.
Wasatch
New member
Tubes are definitely a very nice way to go. Buying used is also good, just know who your buying from helps alot.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I believe her original post was tubes versus SS also. I also have been considering this since I recently picked up a vintage ARC tube amplifier to use as a change of pace to my Son Of Ampzilla II SS amplifier.
I was considering a pre-owned ARC but decided to go back to maybe the one piece that is considered the definitive term for giant killer. There is an almost universal agreement as to how amazing this pre-amplifier is... I know Joe has put it against various units priced at up to ten times it's price.
I am referring to the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE. I know there are threads referring to this amazing unit sounding more tubey than tubes, more accurate than many world class pre-amplifiers.
Unless you have already decided 100% on tubes or the VAC for example, you owe it to yourself to investigate this piece. American made in California, 5 year warranty, fully balanced, remote, built like a tank. And only $1995, or with the full stage 2 upgrade, which will pit it against anything.... period, it is only $3749.
https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se
What you say is missing in your system is where this pre-amplifier shines. It is one of the finest pieces that the renowned audio designer EJ Sarmento has ever created.
I was considering a pre-owned ARC but decided to go back to maybe the one piece that is considered the definitive term for giant killer. There is an almost universal agreement as to how amazing this pre-amplifier is... I know Joe has put it against various units priced at up to ten times it's price.
I am referring to the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE. I know there are threads referring to this amazing unit sounding more tubey than tubes, more accurate than many world class pre-amplifiers.
Unless you have already decided 100% on tubes or the VAC for example, you owe it to yourself to investigate this piece. American made in California, 5 year warranty, fully balanced, remote, built like a tank. And only $1995, or with the full stage 2 upgrade, which will pit it against anything.... period, it is only $3749.
https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se
What you say is missing in your system is where this pre-amplifier shines. It is one of the finest pieces that the renowned audio designer EJ Sarmento has ever created.
Jack
Active member
Actually the Level 2 STP-SE is a very good choice in that it gives you a sonic signature to the "tube side" of SS and none of the maintenance issues of tubes. As Randy said it is built like a tank though not designed for looks first. At $3750 for the fully upgraded model you could still buy a tube phono like the Manley Chinook for $3000 and a tube DAC like the fully loaded Musical Paradise MP-D2 for $1700 or the Lampizator Amber II for $1800 and have money left for other things. Mike can help you with the Manley or the Lampizator. The STP-SE or the Musical Paradise are bought factory direct.
I've owned Pass XP-30, Soulution 520 and now ARC Ref 10. The Ref 10 is far and away my favorite due to its smooth and refined treble, midrange body and textured bass. The width and depth of the soundstage is significantly greater than the solid state units I've owned.
Best,
Ken
Best,
Ken
Rob181
Member
I agree with erniejade on this, to add warmth Lumin A1 / T1 can be considered - but I have a conflict of interests in this.
IMO there's no such thing as a 'warm' ARC preamp (note the Op's wanting), I've owned them for over thirty years. Arguably one of the more neutral.
Want warmth................. here's two initials ......'CJ' , warmth galore, although I think they may all be single ended ??
KeithR
Active member
Would agree that ARC sounds more like SS, so going to be closer to your Levinson gear. I would choose Vac of the "American Big Four"
Randy Myers
Well-known member
As far as I have been able to determine CJ is single ended... I actually was looking into them a little bit ago.
Or again get SS that exhibits characteristics of tubes.... without the hassle of tubes....
Or again get SS that exhibits characteristics of tubes.... without the hassle of tubes....
Msmoto
New member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2016
- Messages
- 50
- Thread Author
- #32
Wonderful, now at a point of total confusion....LOL
My conclusion is this. I travel about a fair amount and will be able to hit several cities where high end audio is available for audition. My request will be to listen to something in SS and then the same set up, but with a tube pre amp. If I do this enough times, selecting out some of the suggestions I have received here, I may be able to come to a conclusion based upon my own ears' experience rather than someone else's ears.
Prior to purchasing what I have, I spent about half a year in multiple rooms, listening, attempting to evaluate, with the results being pretty good (Old Quad ESL 63's). Now, with what I have, I find I can sweeten up the sound by moving speakers around, and testing the sound stage with some reference recordings. I prefer an engulfed sound experience where on some works, the sounds are behind me. Roger Water's Amused to Death, first track is one I like as it has huge range of volume, and voices, dogs, instruments, from all around the listening spot.
Ironically, having spent most of this afternoon moving speakers around, including moving my sweet spot back about 15", I have found the sound warmed up considerably. And the sound stage remained huge. I enjoy listening to all the suggestions, this gets my mind working, and in the next few weeks I will begin the "Great Vacuum Tube Preamplifier Discovery Journey".
I will continue to follow up as I gain more actual listening experience.
Listening to Phil Woods "Here's To My Lady" at present... just like heaven... his horn sounds very sweet....
Thanks to all!
My conclusion is this. I travel about a fair amount and will be able to hit several cities where high end audio is available for audition. My request will be to listen to something in SS and then the same set up, but with a tube pre amp. If I do this enough times, selecting out some of the suggestions I have received here, I may be able to come to a conclusion based upon my own ears' experience rather than someone else's ears.
Prior to purchasing what I have, I spent about half a year in multiple rooms, listening, attempting to evaluate, with the results being pretty good (Old Quad ESL 63's). Now, with what I have, I find I can sweeten up the sound by moving speakers around, and testing the sound stage with some reference recordings. I prefer an engulfed sound experience where on some works, the sounds are behind me. Roger Water's Amused to Death, first track is one I like as it has huge range of volume, and voices, dogs, instruments, from all around the listening spot.
Ironically, having spent most of this afternoon moving speakers around, including moving my sweet spot back about 15", I have found the sound warmed up considerably. And the sound stage remained huge. I enjoy listening to all the suggestions, this gets my mind working, and in the next few weeks I will begin the "Great Vacuum Tube Preamplifier Discovery Journey".
I will continue to follow up as I gain more actual listening experience.
Listening to Phil Woods "Here's To My Lady" at present... just like heaven... his horn sounds very sweet....
Thanks to all!
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Roger Waters is the best for checking out sound stage... my current listening room is a loft and therefore both side walls are open... when my wife and I hosted our club meeting last summer the members could not believe how open a sound stage this created...
One of our club members writes for Stereophile and he put it through it's paces... totally blown away by how not having side walls affected the sound stage... EJ was very impressed how a stand mounted speaker could fill the entire house
... (I still would rather have his KEF Reference 3's )...
I had just hooked the Ampzilla back up for a bit... was listening to Blood, Sweat, and Tears in DSD, but after reading your post I had to put "Amused To Death" in DSD on....
I have been listening to the classic ARC ever since I got it... sounds very sweet... but the SST is pretty fantastic also... just don't want to run the ARC full time... $700-$800 every 2-3 years to re-tube can get a bit pricey... but might be worth it....
See this is the SS versus tube dilemma... the Ampzilla is pretty great, and for get a together playing all day, or for cracking up (rarity for me any more), it is pretty fantastic... but the ARC just has something special about it.... so.... dammmmmm....
One of our club members writes for Stereophile and he put it through it's paces... totally blown away by how not having side walls affected the sound stage... EJ was very impressed how a stand mounted speaker could fill the entire house
... (I still would rather have his KEF Reference 3's )...I had just hooked the Ampzilla back up for a bit... was listening to Blood, Sweat, and Tears in DSD, but after reading your post I had to put "Amused To Death" in DSD on....
I have been listening to the classic ARC ever since I got it... sounds very sweet... but the SST is pretty fantastic also... just don't want to run the ARC full time... $700-$800 every 2-3 years to re-tube can get a bit pricey... but might be worth it....
See this is the SS versus tube dilemma... the Ampzilla is pretty great, and for get a together playing all day, or for cracking up (rarity for me any more), it is pretty fantastic... but the ARC just has something special about it.... so.... dammmmmm....
Wasatch
New member
Another Burmeister, and SS.
Jack
Active member
Randy
That 2-3 years that ARC was projecting was for the power tubes and not the driver tubes. A complete set of Genelex KT-88's will run you less than $250 a quad at multiple dealers. Other brands are much less. 6550's are even less at $160 a quad so play it as much as you want. The 6922 driver tubes will more than likely last twice that long and the Gold Lions are not that much. You or many of your club members could change the power tubes with no problem. Worry about the future tube purchases when the time comes.
That 2-3 years that ARC was projecting was for the power tubes and not the driver tubes. A complete set of Genelex KT-88's will run you less than $250 a quad at multiple dealers. Other brands are much less. 6550's are even less at $160 a quad so play it as much as you want. The 6922 driver tubes will more than likely last twice that long and the Gold Lions are not that much. You or many of your club members could change the power tubes with no problem. Worry about the future tube purchases when the time comes.
Jack
Active member
Tommie
Another option that should be fairly easy to hear in your travels is the new fully balanced PS Audio BHK preamp. With a change in a jumper on the board it will take E88CC, PCC88 and 12AU7 tubes so allowing for quite a variety. Several members on the board are using it.
http://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-preamplifier/
Another option that should be fairly easy to hear in your travels is the new fully balanced PS Audio BHK preamp. With a change in a jumper on the board it will take E88CC, PCC88 and 12AU7 tubes so allowing for quite a variety. Several members on the board are using it.
http://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-preamplifier/
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Thanks Jack... honestly that makes me feel a bit better.... ...
...Jack
Active member
Randy
Keep your eyes open for a sale and put a quad away for a rainy day. Will make you feel better knowing you are covered just in case.
Keep your eyes open for a sale and put a quad away for a rainy day. Will make you feel better knowing you are covered just in case.
I thought so on the CJ stuff, definitely a warm character though. Another 'warm' pre came to mind ....Cary Audio
as far as 'hassle' of tubes (signal) in a preamp, non-existent IMO. power tubes in an amplifier, that's a different story
alto
New member
Interesting thread.
My shortlist: Mola Mola, SST Theobe, W4S STP, FM acoustics.
My shortlist: Mola Mola, SST Theobe, W4S STP, FM acoustics.