Most definitely ordered a pair! Hope to get them soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tube Rolling Update in latest balanced Golden Gate...
- Thread starter La Dolce Vita
- Start date
Most definitely ordered a pair! Hope to get them soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I need good pictures of the getter and the support bars at the top below the mica. Brimar rose out of STC. Same maker. Factory is getter specific. Footscray is earlier. Brimar tubes usually lack the factory code as well. Mine are all military arrow STC offerings.
There is still some concern that these Brimar 5R4GY I received from the vendor, who quoted a STC 5R4GY/CV717 Footscray, are actually incorrect. Writing the tube vendor now. If you already ordered, I would express your concern as well. I'll let you guys know his response.
UYour oldway STC pictures didn't come through.
on positive side, I picked up my we274b from post office. Tests great and looks great. No way to check noise/microphonic though. I will say this. It was the best packed tube I have ever gotten. Japanese vendors do a great job packing. Double boxed with fitted protection throughout and taped so nicely I felt bad opening it up (took 5 minutes too).
on positive side, I picked up my we274b from post office. Tests great and looks great. No way to check noise/microphonic though. I will say this. It was the best packed tube I have ever gotten. Japanese vendors do a great job packing. Double boxed with fitted protection throughout and taped so nicely I felt bad opening it up (took 5 minutes too).
Shawn,
Mind posting pictures what the getters and top look like on the Footscray version look like?
Also talked to tube vendor, he said he assumed the Brimar were the Footscray version and that he would look for others of the D getters. Said he found one right away but no labels on it. He is going to look through more and should be getting some more soon. So your pictures will help.
Thanks!
Mind posting pictures what the getters and top look like on the Footscray version look like?
Also talked to tube vendor, he said he assumed the Brimar were the Footscray version and that he would look for others of the D getters. Said he found one right away but no labels on it. He is going to look through more and should be getting some more soon. So your pictures will help.
Thanks!
I am going to first apologize for being methodical here.It is how I approach most things and usually, if you wade through it, you will learn something that you may be able to use to win at trivia, but will not change your life.Anyway, here goes.
So let’s talk the two labels (maybe more) that these came in. Standard Telephone Company of England (“STC”) was a subsidiary of Western Electric (“WE”) in the early part of the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Century.As I understand it, WE was forced to sell STC at some point in the teens or twenties because of certain anti-trust issues.International Telephone and Telegraph (“ITT”) bought it.STC, in addition to being a telephone company, made tubes using WE’s specs and numbers for a while.You will find 4101D, 4300B and 4274B tubes floating around that are the equivalent of the WE 101D, 300B and 274B respectively.I have never heard any of them.I have done extensive research of the available information, pictures and literature because the cost of these do not justify the purchase. They trade for almost as much as their WE brethren (except maybe the 4274B).After looking at the construction of both, I believe the STC 4274B to be the same as the STC/BRIMAR 5R4GY anyway, so I would have no need to buy it unless they were the same price.The STC 4101D has always been a bit of a want for me, but I have never seen one outside a website picture (it is also numbered 3A/141A and CV1639) and would not pay the $3k many people seek for a pair (my WE 300Bs didn’t even cost that much).
Anyway, in the 1930s, after the sale to ITT, Brimar was formed as an additional part of STC group to manufacture American tubes for the British empire. Brimar literally means British Manufacture American Range. The entity appears to have just made tubes, but did so by using the then operating STC tube factories. The difference was merely the base and/or the writing on the glass. They made tubes under both labels until at least 1960 when STC’s tube manufacturing business and BRIMAR was sold to Thorn Electrical.In the tubes made in these periods, you will see plenty of identical tubes STC and Brimar with the only difference being the label and the way in which the date codes are used.I have not cracked the Brimar date or factory codes, so don’t ask.The STC labels seem to be rarer than Brimar labels.I think that is because STC may have only been used by telephone companies (but that is just my speculation).
The Footscray factory was one of the older factories used by STC/BRIMAR. The Footscray factory has a long history and was actually one of the tube factories studied by the United States in the mid-50s because of its reliability (if you ever want to read about tube reliability, this is a good read:https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/4647/bab7242.0001.001.txt?sequence=4 Basically we sent scientists from the University of Michigan to Europe to see why American tubes failed more.The US Army Signal Corps paid for it. Another good reliability read is this one published by the researchers at Footscray who made these tubes:http://www.clarisonus.com/Archives/TubeTheory/Trustworthy.pdfThey really defined good testing.I am sure todays tests don’t measure up to these). I am not sure whether Footscray was sold with STC to Thorn or not. However, sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, production of the 5R4GY we are going to talk about moved from Footscray to Oldway.
Anyway, I digress, so now that you know how we arrived here at the tubes. So we know there can be STC labeled tubes and Brimar tubes that are the same.The third category is the British broadarrow military tubes.These are the easiest to ID and the safest buys.They were made in the same factory, have been tested to military spec and have been labeled so that if there were failures, the military could easily trace the lots.I call that a score.So, now what to look for in a 5R4GY.
All of these tubes will have 5R4GY in a stop sign on the glass. It fades easy, but it will be there.The bases I have seen are dark brown and are not rounded (so more like an American tube and not the U52).
The military tubes are the easiest to ID because they have a lot of great data on the base. See here: http://www.tubecollector.org/documents/k1001/section4.pdf. There will be the British broadarrow on the left side.Below that will be the date code (first letter year next letter month).A is 1945, B 1946, etc.I and O were skipped.I have never seen a Footscray date code that begins with a letter past P (which is 1958).To the right the CV number is listed (CV717).Below that is the military spec code, which is always KB on these.Next is the factory code.FB = Footscray.FE = Oldway.So if you find a tube (like this pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV717-BRIMA...981673?hash=item3abf0690a9:g:BuwAAOSwu1VW3oh~) you are golden.
If not, we need another way to ID them.
First is the getter, which is definitive in my mind. These all have the D getters (two) at the base.They are hard to picture.The picture from yesterday is the best I have been able to take.There is just so much getter flashing you cannot see in so well.There are two identical D getters on opposite sides of the tube.I have never seen an Oldway tube with the D getters.The Oldway tubes have thicker metal getters that are in a horseshoe shape.
If I am doing this with pictures, I will look at the mica tops to confirm. Not so much what the mica looks like (they are all the same), but where the filaments are attached (you want them to be hanging) below the mica (1/2”-1”) by springs, not abutting the mica.Both Oldway and Footscray have this mica/filament combo, but later Oldway have the filament abutting the mica.
I then look at the internal support bars (the one’s outside the anode plates). The Footscray factory always have straight support bars.Oldway may have straight bars, but early on they crossed one of the support bars.See this picture. One on the right is crossd. Left is straight. OK, does that help?
So let’s talk the two labels (maybe more) that these came in. Standard Telephone Company of England (“STC”) was a subsidiary of Western Electric (“WE”) in the early part of the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Century.As I understand it, WE was forced to sell STC at some point in the teens or twenties because of certain anti-trust issues.International Telephone and Telegraph (“ITT”) bought it.STC, in addition to being a telephone company, made tubes using WE’s specs and numbers for a while.You will find 4101D, 4300B and 4274B tubes floating around that are the equivalent of the WE 101D, 300B and 274B respectively.I have never heard any of them.I have done extensive research of the available information, pictures and literature because the cost of these do not justify the purchase. They trade for almost as much as their WE brethren (except maybe the 4274B).After looking at the construction of both, I believe the STC 4274B to be the same as the STC/BRIMAR 5R4GY anyway, so I would have no need to buy it unless they were the same price.The STC 4101D has always been a bit of a want for me, but I have never seen one outside a website picture (it is also numbered 3A/141A and CV1639) and would not pay the $3k many people seek for a pair (my WE 300Bs didn’t even cost that much).
Anyway, in the 1930s, after the sale to ITT, Brimar was formed as an additional part of STC group to manufacture American tubes for the British empire. Brimar literally means British Manufacture American Range. The entity appears to have just made tubes, but did so by using the then operating STC tube factories. The difference was merely the base and/or the writing on the glass. They made tubes under both labels until at least 1960 when STC’s tube manufacturing business and BRIMAR was sold to Thorn Electrical.In the tubes made in these periods, you will see plenty of identical tubes STC and Brimar with the only difference being the label and the way in which the date codes are used.I have not cracked the Brimar date or factory codes, so don’t ask.The STC labels seem to be rarer than Brimar labels.I think that is because STC may have only been used by telephone companies (but that is just my speculation).
The Footscray factory was one of the older factories used by STC/BRIMAR. The Footscray factory has a long history and was actually one of the tube factories studied by the United States in the mid-50s because of its reliability (if you ever want to read about tube reliability, this is a good read:https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/4647/bab7242.0001.001.txt?sequence=4 Basically we sent scientists from the University of Michigan to Europe to see why American tubes failed more.The US Army Signal Corps paid for it. Another good reliability read is this one published by the researchers at Footscray who made these tubes:http://www.clarisonus.com/Archives/TubeTheory/Trustworthy.pdfThey really defined good testing.I am sure todays tests don’t measure up to these). I am not sure whether Footscray was sold with STC to Thorn or not. However, sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, production of the 5R4GY we are going to talk about moved from Footscray to Oldway.
Anyway, I digress, so now that you know how we arrived here at the tubes. So we know there can be STC labeled tubes and Brimar tubes that are the same.The third category is the British broadarrow military tubes.These are the easiest to ID and the safest buys.They were made in the same factory, have been tested to military spec and have been labeled so that if there were failures, the military could easily trace the lots.I call that a score.So, now what to look for in a 5R4GY.
All of these tubes will have 5R4GY in a stop sign on the glass. It fades easy, but it will be there.The bases I have seen are dark brown and are not rounded (so more like an American tube and not the U52).
The military tubes are the easiest to ID because they have a lot of great data on the base. See here: http://www.tubecollector.org/documents/k1001/section4.pdf. There will be the British broadarrow on the left side.Below that will be the date code (first letter year next letter month).A is 1945, B 1946, etc.I and O were skipped.I have never seen a Footscray date code that begins with a letter past P (which is 1958).To the right the CV number is listed (CV717).Below that is the military spec code, which is always KB on these.Next is the factory code.FB = Footscray.FE = Oldway.So if you find a tube (like this pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV717-BRIMA...981673?hash=item3abf0690a9:g:BuwAAOSwu1VW3oh~) you are golden.
If not, we need another way to ID them.
First is the getter, which is definitive in my mind. These all have the D getters (two) at the base.They are hard to picture.The picture from yesterday is the best I have been able to take.There is just so much getter flashing you cannot see in so well.There are two identical D getters on opposite sides of the tube.I have never seen an Oldway tube with the D getters.The Oldway tubes have thicker metal getters that are in a horseshoe shape.
If I am doing this with pictures, I will look at the mica tops to confirm. Not so much what the mica looks like (they are all the same), but where the filaments are attached (you want them to be hanging) below the mica (1/2”-1”) by springs, not abutting the mica.Both Oldway and Footscray have this mica/filament combo, but later Oldway have the filament abutting the mica.
I then look at the internal support bars (the one’s outside the anode plates). The Footscray factory always have straight support bars.Oldway may have straight bars, but early on they crossed one of the support bars.See this picture. One on the right is crossd. Left is straight. OK, does that help?
Attachments
In my research I found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Brimar-5...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 That is a sale of one of each. Getter flashing on the tube is not as full as my 3, so you can see the D getter better here. You can also see the horseshoe getter.
An el cheapo rectifier I can heartily recommend is the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre ceramic spacer CV717/5R4GY. They are cheap and pretty easy to find for a good price. They have double mica with ceramic spacers at the top. Here is an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R4-CV717-H...175281?hash=item5ae3290e31:g:iAoAAOxyUylTRC3n Not sure who actually made them. I have seen them with each of the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre labels. I have only ever seen them labeled made in Italy once. They could even be Russian for all I know. Anyway, I have also seen them with pan, D and circular getters. I don't own the D, but have the other 2. They sound the same and are awesome for the price.
Shawn
An el cheapo rectifier I can heartily recommend is the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre ceramic spacer CV717/5R4GY. They are cheap and pretty easy to find for a good price. They have double mica with ceramic spacers at the top. Here is an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R4-CV717-H...175281?hash=item5ae3290e31:g:iAoAAOxyUylTRC3n Not sure who actually made them. I have seen them with each of the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre labels. I have only ever seen them labeled made in Italy once. They could even be Russian for all I know. Anyway, I have also seen them with pan, D and circular getters. I don't own the D, but have the other 2. They sound the same and are awesome for the price.
Shawn
Found a WE restoration firm in Japan that stocks tubes and has these STC CV717. Price is dear though. pm if interested. I have that British firm that thought his Brimar 5r4gy were footscray find me a couple that seemed to match Shawn's description. Cheap enough to try again.
Good luck. Just remember, I did not love them with my 300B output tubes. Put in 275As and it sounded heavenly. With the 300Bs, it was just too accurate. Became sterile.
Thanks! Have a pair of 275A and another pair on the way!
Actually up to 6 275A now. Great price on last pair and was hard to refuse.
was eyeing a 22s22 on eBay NIB. Jumped from $130 to $200 in last ten seconds. Then went from $200 to immediately jump to over $1000 at last 5 sec. Haahaa. So much for cheap.
