Tone Arm Related- Compressor for Air-Bearing Arm

billhart

billhart

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Joined
Apr 17, 2015
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Location
NY-Austin
I've been running a Kuzma Airline for a long time and like it. The one sore point for me has always been the compressor, which is supplied by Silentaire. It works fine, but, because it has a relatively small surge tank, it has to kick on fairly frequently (the Kuzma arm sees about 65 psi). Over the years, I've replaced a few parts on the compressor, but it has soldiered on, so I can't say it's a bad product, perhaps just 'undersized' for the purpose. Obviously, since the arm is sold as a complete package, with inline driers as well as the compressor, supplying it with a bigger compressor would add to the not insignificant retail price of the arm. So, when the compressor started acting up, I decided to super size. This just arrived at world HQ here in NY and with some help from the local cross-fit team, will get carried up two flights and installed in the utility room adjacent to my listening room.
http://
 
Nice looking unit how much noise does it make. I do not run and never have run air bearings. But I do have a lot of years with air running to sandblasts and to Lazars with the lazars humidity is a killer to keep it down we use over sized hoses to run the air the less friction the less heat . Warm air holds more water. You can also use a refrigerated dryer . If you have a problem or would like a cheap way to see if a refrigerated dryer would help. Do the following take 6 or 8 coils of the air line leaving the compressor coil it in a 5 gallon plastic bucket fill the bucket with ice. If that fixes the problem you need a refrigerated dryer. Never bought a small one but it should not be much. a bar fridge would work. Put your water trap after the dryer. Water is a big problem over time in air lines I can not think it is good for air bearings . Get rid of the heat you get a lot less problems. Just IMO
 
(the Kuzma arm sees about 65 psi)
Wow! I can't imagine why it would need so much pressure. Oh well, I'm not a tonearm designer and I don't play one on TV.
 
Garth said:
Nice looking unit how much noise does it make. I do not run and never have run air bearings. But I do have a lot of years with air running to sandblasts and to Lazars with the lazars humidity is a killer to keep it down we use over sized hoses to run the air the less friction the less heat . Warm air holds more water. You can also use a refrigerated dryer . If you have a problem or would like a cheap way to see if a refrigerated dryer would help. Do the following take 6 or 8 coils of the air line leaving the compressor coil it in a 5 gallon plastic bucket fill the bucket with ice. If that fixes the problem you need a refrigerated dryer. Never bought a small one but it should not be much. a bar fridge would work. Put your water trap after the dryer. Water is a big problem over time in air lines I can not think it is good for air bearings . Get rid of the heat you get a lot less problems. Just IMO
Click to expand...
Helpful. I usually keep the room like a meatlocker (cold) in the summer, but added cooling, if it isn't a big deal, may still make a difference- will look into it. Noise- i think it is 2 db louder than the one that came with the tonearm, around 42 db. It will be installed in a room adjacent to the listening room- when there is no music playing, I could faintly here the compressor kick on, so it is there. The big constraint is that to eliminate the electrical 'zap' that the compressor creates when it kicks on, I have it plugged into a 220 volt step down, and that's located in the music room area. I've thought about installing it in the basement and running a long line but we've been trying to sell the house (for some time), so I'm not sure I'm going to do major work until we finally move.
SlowGeez: I suspect the high pressure bearing is one of the ways Kuzma was able to make this thing work in practice; I had an ET eons ago, and remember all the hoops people had to jump, the DIY, the smoothing baffles, etc. The Kuzma, while it is not the ultimate arm for all purposes, is really well executed given how tricky these arms can be. It's pretty foolproof once you learn how to set it up. (And I don't consider myself a set-up guru by any means).
 
Wow, just looked up the Kuzma Airline. Very interesting. How much maintenance is involved either with the arm or the compressor?

BTW, Bill, love your recent articles on The Vinyl Press: RLJ, Fleetwood Mac, Tull, etc - great stuff! :tup: The RLJ made me go buy an older Mofi of her S/T LP!
 
billhart said:
Helpful. I usually keep the room like a meatlocker (cold) in the summer, but added cooling, if it isn't a big deal, may still make a difference- will look into it. Noise- i think it is 2 db louder than the one that came with the tonearm, around 42 db. It will be installed in a room adjacent to the listening room- when there is no music playing, I could faintly here the compressor kick on, so it is there. The big constraint is that to eliminate the electrical 'zap' that the compressor creates when it kicks on, I have it plugged into a 220 volt step down, and that's located in the music room area. I've thought about installing it in the basement and running a long line but we've been trying to sell the house (for some time), so I'm not sure I'm going to do major work until we finally move.
SlowGeez: I suspect the high pressure bearing is one of the ways Kuzma was able to make this thing work in practice; I had an ET eons ago, and remember all the hoops people had to jump, the DIY, the smoothing baffles, etc. The Kuzma, while it is not the ultimate arm for all purposes, is really well executed given how tricky these arms can be. It's pretty foolproof once you learn how to set it up. (And I don't consider myself a set-up guru by any means).
Click to expand...

Your welcome if you do run a long line keep it big and you can add a second tank near the table it will do two things and be silent doing them first it takes any surge out of the line because if their is a drop it does not have to go all the way back to tank in the basement to get air. Second mount it vertically and put a swing valve at the bottom and the exit air line at the top the input air line mid way up the tank and it will trap water . Open the swing valve once a month drain any water and your golden. Air tanks are cheap and the less the compressor cycles the better. IMO
 
Thanks Allen. Glad you like the site. Arm is pretty low maintenance, hardest part is getting it dead level, and you have to do that by playing it, and checking it, rather than measuring it. I check it with various levels, but that only gets you into the 'zone' because you have to set it so it tracks 'downhill' just a tad. The compressor thing has always been a bit of a thorn in my side, but it comes with the territory, I guess. Overall, it has been a very reliable product, and I am a fan of Franc Kuzma's work, having owned a couple of his tables and this arm, so far.
 
Garth, if I go that distance, literally and figuratively, I may, to paraphrase the Godfather (from I): 'Someday, I may call upon you...". :)
 
billhart said:
Garth, if I go that distance, literally and figuratively, I may, to paraphrase the Godfather (from I): 'Someday, I may call upon you...". :)
Click to expand...

No problem Air I know about air bearings not a clue. I looked at a very simple but nice looking and sounding Danish table at RMAF a few years back with air bearings. Had a nice sound musical but I like my magnetic monster .
 
Hi Bill

I have an Airline arm on my XL4 . Some comments :

1. I use a Silentaire Super Silent DR-150 Air Compressor which is much smaller than the monster you're showing in your pic . Exceptionally quiet , despite which I have it in an adjacent room . Running at 60 PSI as per spec .

2. I'm wondering why your compressor is kicking in that frequently - it might be that the inline air filters haven't seated their seals at the bottom properly ? There's a technique to do that , PM me.

3. Interestingly, Franc suggested to me that the table shouldn't be dead level. I introduced a tiny amount of tilt in the table which has the effect of nudging the arm ever so slightly from the outside of the table towards the lead-out grooves. We're talking the thickness of a playing card here. So it helps to have the table on a platform or base that has the capability to adjust very fine amounts of level. I use a Cartridge Man turntable digital level as otherwise, conventional levels are a waste of time.

Happy to help anytime
 
Wow, very impressive! I use an ADA MG-1 Linear Tracking Air Bearing arm and I use an AL-15A Alita Aquarium air pump which has a maximum output of 1.4 psi. It has worked fine for the past 6 years. I tried using a Hi-Blow 80 for the heck of it but it was too much. I could have used an inline valve but I just swapped back in the original air pump instead. I have thought about using a surge tank to even out the flow but haven't gotten around to it.
 
BoBo- sent you a PM.
I may have the PSI wrong, running from memory;
I detailed the issues re compressor cycling in my PM to you, as well as my method for seating the dryers;
Re level, I wasn't entirely clear in my earlier post b/c I said dead level, but then qualified it by saying that it is canted in a 'tad' (I have measured it in tenths or hundredths of a degree, so I think we are doing the same thing on level). Happy to talk off-line in more detail, and thank you for your input.
best,
bill hart
 
billhart said:
Thanks Allen. Glad you like the site. Arm is pretty low maintenance, hardest part is getting it dead level, and you have to do that by playing it, and checking it, rather than measuring it. I check it with various levels, but that only gets you into the 'zone' because you have to set it so it tracks 'downhill' just a tad. The compressor thing has always been a bit of a thorn in my side, but it comes with the territory, I guess. Overall, it has been a very reliable product, and I am a fan of Franc Kuzma's work, having owned a couple of his tables and this arm, so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bill. One of my local dealers sells Kuzma and may consider one some time in the future for a 2nd table.
 
I use a Jun Air compressor with 4 liter tank for my Rockport 6000 arm, which runs around 33psi. The compressor switches on every 4 mins or so.

Including the set right at the output of the compressor, I have a total of 3 sets of regulators between the compressor and the arm. The first regulator is set at 100+psi, which also supply air to my pneumatic table. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] set takes it down to around 60psi, and the last set right before the arm is set at around 33 psi.
 
Postscript: The new, larger compressor was installed with no difficulty. In fact, the only thing I had to do was remove the "quick release" fitting from the old compressor and thread it (with fresh teflon tape after removing the old tape) into the output/regulator of the new unit. Things I like about the new unit: the motors and lines are exposed and easier to access and manage (though if things are working properly, there's very little to do, other than check oil level occasionally and empty the waste jar). I suspect my old compressor was tired- it had various oil leaks and seemed to spit oil outside of the waste collection jar (we'll see if that happens as the new unit breaks in). The unit is 2 db louder than the small 'suitcase' compressor that came with the tonearm, but that's not really noticeable when isolated in an adjacent room. And, because of the much larger tank, it doesn't seem to cycle very frequently. Only apparent downside: size and weight.
If you have an older Airline arm and eventually need to replace or refurbish the compressor (these things don't live forever), I would be inclined to go for the larger one. The cost- directly from the compressor manufacturer in the States- is not that much greater than the price of a direct replacement, despite the considerable difference in size/capacity/power. (1HP vs 1/2 HP motors; 13 gallon v 2.25 gallon tanks).
Thanks for everyone's input, including Bobo's. (We traded emails offline). I'll update this if I change my view after living with the larger unit for a while. It's nice to have the system back up and running!
 
Albert said:
Wow, very impressive! I use an ADA MG-1 Linear Tracking Air Bearing arm and I use an AL-15A Alita Aquarium air pump which has a maximum output of 1.4 psi. It has worked fine for the past 6 years. I tried using a Hi-Blow 80 for the heck of it but it was too much. I could have used an inline valve but I just swapped back in the original air pump instead. I have thought about using a surge tank to even out the flow but haven't gotten around to it.
Click to expand...

But is the arm built for pressure or flow rate? Different air bearing arms have different requirements.
 
Bill, very cool.

Before the Airline, did you use Kuzma's 4point arm? If so, how does it compare to the Airline? What improvements do you get with the Airline?
 
Garth said:
Your welcome if you do run a long line keep it big and you can add a second tank near the table it will do two things and be silent doing them first it takes any surge out of the line because if their is a drop it does not have to go all the way back to tank in the basement to get air. Second mount it vertically and put a swing valve at the bottom and the exit air line at the top the input air line mid way up the tank and it will trap water . Open the swing valve once a month drain any water and your golden. Air tanks are cheap and the less the compressor cycles the better. IMO
Click to expand...

Knowing a bit about compressors, and being very reliant on them for dry air in my office, I agree with Garth.

I want to emphasize the drain valve must be AT the bottom, the very lowest point in the tank, NOT NEAR the bottom, nor should there be a nipple or part of the valve extending inside the tank that would allow any water to remain in the tank after draining the tank. The inner aspect of the tank where the valve is connected MUST be flush with the surface. The direction of the air inflow should be horizontally at the mid-height of the tank and the outflow should be vertical at the top of the tank. This will minimize any potential splashing in the tank (there ideally should never be any water that far down the line anyway) and prevent inflowing and outflowing air from blowing against each other. The drier should be immediately after the compressor and BEFORE any tanks which could collect water. The drain vales in the tanks are purely for a safety back-up.
 
billhart said:
I've been running a Kuzma Airline for a long time and like it. The one sore point for me has always been the compressor, which is supplied by Silentaire. It works fine, but, because it has a relatively small surge tank, it has to kick on fairly frequently (the Kuzma arm sees about 65 psi). Over the years, I've replaced a few parts on the compressor, but it has soldiered on, so I can't say it's a bad product, perhaps just 'undersized' for the purpose. Obviously, since the arm is sold as a complete package, with inline driers as well as the compressor, supplying it with a bigger compressor would add to the not insignificant retail price of the arm. So, when the compressor started acting up, I decided to super size. This just arrived at world HQ here in NY and with some help from the local cross-fit team, will get carried up two flights and installed in the utility room adjacent to my listening room.
http://
Click to expand...

Hi Bill, silentaire makes a great compressor. have you considered a scuba tank? an acquaintance of mine ran a pr of 80 cu ft tanks on his ET-2. using the system daily, he got several months use between refills. the air is absolutely dry with no pulses, surges or oil emanating from a pump (not to mention dead silent). they run 2500+ pSI and regulated down to whatever you need. depending on how 'lossy' the kuzma bearing is, a scuba tank could handle 60 PSI with no problem.
 
GaryProtein said:
Knowing a bit about compressors, and being very reliant on them for dry air in my office, I agree with Garth.

I want to emphasize the drain valve must be AT the bottom, the very lowest point in the tank, NOT NEAR the bottom, nor should there be a nipple or part of the valve extending inside the tank that would allow any water to remain in the tank after draining the tank. The inner aspect of the tank where the valve is connected MUST be flush with the surface. The direction of the air inflow should be horizontally at the mid-height of the tank and the outflow should be vertical at the top of the tank. This will minimize any potential splashing in the tank (there ideally should never be any water that far down the line anyway) and prevent inflowing and outflowing air from blowing against each other. The drier should be immediately after the compressor and BEFORE any tanks which could collect water. The drain vales in the tanks are purely for a safety back-up.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Gary. For now, I'm not going to do a long run with a separate tank. I trust that SIL designed the new compressor properly; I know there is an electronic 'auto' drain function that I opted to add. In any event, I'll look at it more closely in the morning. The spitting I seemed to experience with the original, smaller (also SIL) compressor seemed to be a result of the oily water being fed to the waste jar, but not deposited into the jar; instead, it appeared to accumulate on the outside of the waste jar; whether that was because there were filtered air holes in the top of the waste jar, or some form of leakage from the drain pipes to the jar, was hard for me to tell. The new compressor is laid out more simply, and all of these parts are far more accessible. My recollection is, the motors draw air in, feed the tank and there is a desiccant type? or "coalescing" filter/dryer that is part of the output regulator. I believe the auto drying device is connected to that, but I'll look at it more closely and go over the manual (which isn't very good) again. The auto drain is described by SIL as a tank drain. The in-line dryers are connected a very short distance from the compressor output, and then, a fairly short distance to the tonearm itself, e.g. approximately 3 foot lengths at each interval.
 
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