To Switch or Not to Switch?

[Feanor]

Bill, the problem with specs is that they do not tell the whole story. Here are 2 examples.

I wanted a cheap DAC for TV and a bedroom stereo system that I rarely use. I bought the Topping E50 DAC based on the reviews and stellar measurements on ASR. It sound mediocre and when tried in my sons reference system it sounded awful, veiled and downright bad. At the time it was one of their top 5 measuring dacs.

Also, my former Parasound A21 amp has better specs than my Pass X250 amp. It was grainy in comparison to the Pass among other things that the Pass excelled at vs the Parasound.

As the great Nelson Pass said, "I can make an amp that specs perfectly and sounds bad and I can make an amp with bad specs that sounds great". There is truth to that and my ears tell me it is so.

The ASR review of the Topping E50 may be found HERE if anyone cares. I certainly won't dispute your experience with it, but the most likely reason that it sound "awful, veiled", is that the unit was defective. It is a cheap component and there will be some lemons.

 

[Mechnutt]

The ASR review of the Topping E50 may be found HERE if anyone cares. I certainly won't dispute your experience with it, but the most likely reason that it sound "awful, veiled", is that the unit was defective. It is a cheap component and there will be some lemons.

Sorry Bill, I bought 2 of them. Both sound the same. We tried various higher end usb cables. They just did not have the fidelity. I use one for TV and it sounds fine with that. I use the other one in a bedroom system that consists of an early 2000's Marantz Receiver and Monitor Audio RX-1 speakers. It sounds ok with that. But in my reference system and my son's it sounds muddy and it should not as we both have custom computers that I built for audio using JCat USB cards powered by external LPS. And I bought the one for the TV first and the second one 6 months later. That's when we tried it in the reference systems.

Peoples experience with them may be different but the E50 really was exposed.

And I have heard a lot of the higher end gear that they shit on and found that they either did not really listen to it or they have expectation bias that it is going to sound bad. I believe it was ASR (or possible the Steve Hoffman Forum) where the guys were talking about the Gold Note PH-10 that was going to be released and they were already making fun of the price of the phono preamp and bad mouthing it before even hearing it. I am glad that I did not let that affect my decision to buy it as it is fabulous.

 

[Mechnutt]

By the way Bill, ASR touts the Topping E30ii and if you watch the review from the Cheap Audioman on this dac, he trashes it as bright and not really listenable. He did like the E50 I believe.

 

[Feanor]

Sorry Bill, I bought 2 of them. Both sound the same. We tried various higher end usb cables. They just did not have the fidelity. I use one for TV and it sounds fine with that. I use the other one in a bedroom system that consists of an early 2000's Marantz Receiver and Monitor Audio RX-1 speakers. It sounds ok with that. But in my reference system and my son's it sounds muddy and it should not as we both have custom computers that I built for audio using JCat USB cards powered by external LPS. And I bought the one for the TV first and the second one 6 months later. That's when we tried it in the reference systems.

Peoples experience with them may be different but the E50 really was exposed.

Then I must suppose that ASR had the outlier that happened to test exceptionally rare. My experience is that equipment that measures really well sounds clean and detailed.

MY own bias is exposed which is that I no longer credit subjective reviews. People simply bring too many biases to subjective audition. Folks like Steve Guttenberg, (pleasant guy that he is), are ultimately charlatans. John Darko is a more rationally objective but remains in the category; (however see his, "8 things beginner audiophiles can safely ignore").

Plus there are a couple of pervasive confounding factors. First, many people like pleasing distortions, mainly 2nd & 3rd order harmonics that have the effect of smoothing other distortions but, IMO, at the expense of detail & transparency. Second, a high portion of recordings just aren't very good, especially for revealing detail and "air". I think I'm lucky in that I listen mainly to the Classical genre where recordings are mostly of acoustic instruments and unamplified performance. Classical listeners tend to place a large premium on detail and transparency. Quality large scale choral recordings are especially helpful to separate the auditory sheep from the goats.

 

[Mechnutt]

I do not think it is a stretch to believe that a very budget DAC can sound good in a midfi system and bad in higher end systems. Your system is only as good as its weakest link.

Compared to my son's Chord Qutest DAC that is paired with a Regen and both are being powered by external LPS's the E50 sounded veiled, lacked depth and detail. Dynamics were better with the Chord.

 

[Feanor]

I do not think it is a stretch to believe that a very budget DAC can sound good in a midfi system and bad in higher end systems. Your system is only as good as its weakest link.

Compared to my son's Chord Qutest DAC that is paired with a Regen and both are being powered by external LPS's the E50 sounded veiled, lacked depth and detail. Dynamics were better with the Chord.

I agree that matching a component to the rest of a system is a thing.

FWIW, the Chord Qutest DAC got very high praise at ASR: see ink HERE. Its mentioned USD price of $1900 isn't absurd either; compare with the E50 II at US$ 271 -- presumably including tariff.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I agree that matching a component to the rest of a system is a thing.

FWIW, the Chord Qutest DAC got very high praise at ASR: see ink HERE. Its mentioned USD price of $1900 isn't absurd either; compare with the E50 II at US$ 271 -- presumably including tariff.

I 'm curious - do you ever make up your own mind about gear or only go by what ASR tells people to think?

It's an honest and sincere question. I've leaned over the years that if I do OPPOSITE what ASR suggests I'll get great results - like with my Neve headphone amp.

 

[Feanor]

I 'm curious - do you ever make up your own mind about gear or only go by what ASR tells people to think?

It's an honest and sincere question. I've leaned over the years that if I do OPPOSITE what ASR suggests I'll get great results - like with my Neve headphone amp.

I've been interested in hi-fi for 55 years and I have always made up my own mind. It's a stroke of luck that I've discovered in the last 10 years so that is there is a distinct correlation between my long-standing personal preferences and what ASR considers "Great".

I've explained the my preferences run to maximum clear detail, transparency, crisp dynamics, and deep, articulate bass. I understand that other people's preferences may run to a smoother, warmer sound ... or whatever.

 

[Mechnutt]

I agree that matching a component to the rest of a system is a thing.

FWIW, the Chord Qutest DAC got very high praise at ASR: see ink HERE. Its mentioned USD price of $1900 isn't absurd either; compare with the E50 II at US$ 271 -- presumably including tariff.

You can pick up a used Qutest for $900 these days. My son bought his used 2 years ago for $1200. It is a good dac, not a great one. Using a LPS to power it makes a nice improvement in clarity, detail and space. Adding a Regen powered by a LPS also smooths out the sound. IMHO, these upgrades are a must and cheap. We use Chinese Teradak LPS's and they have very good build quality and parts. Best of all they make things sound better. Without these upgrades, I thought the DAC was overhyped. It tends to be a little bright and fatiguing. These mods cut that by about 85%. I think that the Hugo is also overhyped for its price. I will take a Yggy or Direct Stream dac any day over the Qutest and Hugo including the TT.

The DAC also responds to usb cables and RCA cables. Duelund 16g RCA's also improved the sound.