To jab or not to jab

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The very rare hematological disorders seen in European recipients are perhaps the most worrisome development for the vaccine, but many scientists are still unsure what to make of them. Germany, Italy, Austria, Norway, and Denmark have all reported cases of people who developed widespread blood clots, low platelet counts, and internal bleeding; at least seven have died. “It's a very special picture” of symptoms, says Steinar Madsen, medical director of the Norwegian Medicines Agency. “Our leading hematologist said he had never seen anything quite like it.”



In the global battle against COVID-19, the vaccine made by British-Swedish firm AstraZeneca has been a source of great hope. It's easy to store—requiring only refrigeration, not a deep freeze—and the firm has partnered with several other manufacturers as part of its pledge to make the vaccine, developed by researchers at the University of Oxford, available to countries around the world at low cost.

But the vaccine's journey has been anything but smooth. The company's early efficacy claims were confusing and, in some cases, disappointing. And over the past 2 weeks, the waters got particularly choppy. More than 20 European countries suspended use of the shots after more than a dozen recently vaccinated people developed unusual clotting disorders. Immunizations resumed in most countries after the European Medicines Agency (EMA) investigated the matter.

Then, the company announced the long-awaited results of a large trial in the Americas that seemed to end lingering doubts about the vaccine's efficacy—only to be rebuffed by the Data and Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB) overseeing the study, which, in a highly unusual clash, suggested the company had presented “outdated information” on efficacy. “It appears that [AstraZeneca] may have been using the most favorable data, and the DSMB wanted to make sure they corrected that,” says Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which appointed the DSMB and made the discord public in a 23 March statement. (The DSMB saw no safety concerns, however.)

The company promised to publish more up-to-date data by 25 March. But the drama left public health experts reeling and raised fears that trust in the vaccine would erode further.


New problems erode confidence in AstraZeneca's vaccine | Science
 
I don't think he is evil. But .... his history at Microsoft certainly shows that he is ruthless in getting what he wants in business. But business billionaires pretty much all have that quality - w a few exceptions of course. I also don't get the feeling he wants to rule the world. If that was the case he would have made a play for that when he was the richest man. But he didn't.

As far as the vaccine - I will get it when available to me. I hope to get the Johnson and Johnson cause it's older tech but will accept whatever they have at the time.



Shadowfax said:
That is correct, they tell us what they are going to do before they do it knowing that most will not actually pay attention. The guy is pure evil in my opinion. He has invested Billions of dollars in Vaccines and said it's all about the return on his money. What better way to create the return by finding ways to "need" more vaccines.
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Three weeks after my second Pfizer dose. No side effects from either. A little muscle pain at the injection site.

Surprising mental health benefits - things seem just a bit lighter and brighter.

Stereo sounds better - increased midrange detail and more realistic instrumental timbres. Effect similar to changing out a USB cable. Oh wait, that could be some system changes I’ve made. Hard to tell really. :)

I remember growing up with teachers and siblings of friends just a few years older than I having to deal with the crippling and debilitating impacts of polio - before Jonas Salk IPV was approved by the FDA.

Polio cases dropped from 35,000 on 1953 to 161 cases in 1961. I got vaccinated as a child in a mass vaccination drive using Jet Injectors. There was no question- we all got the shot. All us kids. There were no religious, political, or moral objections. No one in our school got polio.

The list of diseases eradicated (or nearly so) by vaccines includes polio, smallpox, measles mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis.....I’m sure I forgot many.
 
W9TR said:
Three weeks after my second Pfizer dose. No side effects from either. A little muscle pain at the injection site.

Surprising mental health benefits - things seem just a bit lighter and brighter.

Stereo sounds better - increased midrange detail and more realistic instrumental timbres. Effect similar to changing out a USB cable. Oh wait, that could be some system changes I’ve made. Hard to tell really. :)

I remember growing up with teachers and siblings of friends just a few years older than I having to deal with the crippling and debilitating impacts of polio - before Jonas Salk IPV was approved by the FDA.

Polio cases dropped from 35,000 on 1953 to 161 cases in 1961. I got vaccinated as a child in a mass vaccination drive using Jet Injectors. There was no question- we all got the shot. All us kids. There were no religious, political, or moral objections. No one in our school got polio.

The list of diseases eradicated (or nearly so) by vaccines includes polio, smallpox, measles mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis.....I’m sure I forgot many.
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Glad to hear you are doing well after the second injection Tom. Yes, vaccines did eradicate a dozen plus diseases. Some did cause problems but statistically it was insignificant just as the outliers from the covid vaccines today...

By the way, those jet injectors were banned for health reasons in the early 2000's. Sometimes it just takes a while to convince scientists not to do things they so believe in :rolleyes:
 
Yes - there were problems with some Polio vaccines that were improperly made. The Jet Injectors spread hepatitis in a few cases so have fallen out of favor. Probably a good thing.
 
I don’t know what they are going to do if the new variants spread and the vaccines already in the arms don’t work. That will be a major problem to say the least. Brazil and the younger groups dying in the second wave with the new mutated variant is no joke.




Researchers are monitoring new COVID variants closely. This includes research to see whether new variants may change the protective effects of the current vaccines. So far studies suggest that antibodies gathered through vaccination with the current authorized vaccines do recognize new variants.

The increase in both illness and death in younger people has coincided with the rise of at least one Covid-19 variant in Brazil.
The so-called P.1 variant, which scientists say originated from Brazil, is widely agreed upon to be more easily transmissible, up to 2.2 times so according to a recent study.

According to a March 4 study of eight Brazilian states by national health research institute Fiocruz, over half of all Covid-19 cases in six states were "associated with variants of concern" including P.1, as well as variants first identified in the UK and South Africa.
 
Recent research similarly found that mRNA vaccines illicit antibodies in pregnant women that can be transferred to their babies, though this is the largest study on vaccines in pregnant women, to date. Pregnant and lactating women were not included in the initial clinical trials of the vaccines.

It’s a brave new world out there....
 
Drum roll.....

Ilana Rachel Daniel came with an emotional outcry for international help from Jerusalem, the capital of Israel. At record speed, the government is vaccinating the entire population - including pregnant women and children - against the coronavirus. "Civil rights are put aside and people are not allowed participation in multiple places in society unless they've been vaccinated or in some places of work, after repeated PCR testing every 2-3 days

OUTCRY TO THE WORLD, FROM ISRAEL!!! (NL+ENG subtitles) - YouTube
 
W9TR said:
Three weeks after my second Pfizer dose. No side effects from either. A little muscle pain at the injection site.

Surprising mental health benefits - things seem just a bit lighter and brighter.

Stereo sounds better - increased midrange detail and more realistic instrumental timbres. Effect similar to changing out a USB cable. Oh wait, that could be some system changes I’ve made. Hard to tell really. :)

I remember growing up with teachers and siblings of friends just a few years older than I having to deal with the crippling and debilitating impacts of polio - before Jonas Salk IPV was approved by the FDA.

Polio cases dropped from 35,000 on 1953 to 161 cases in 1961. I got vaccinated as a child in a mass vaccination drive using Jet Injectors. There was no question- we all got the shot. All us kids. There were no religious, political, or moral objections. No one in our school got polio.

The list of diseases eradicated (or nearly so) by vaccines includes polio, smallpox, measles mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis.....I’m sure I forgot many.
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I wonder how many people out right rejected the Polio vaccination at the time it came available and ultimately suffered the consequence of their action. I'm pretty sure there must have been folk, like Shadowfax, who were talking of vast conspiracies even in those days...
 
TheOctopus said:
With numbers like 100 Billion invested into vaccines from Bill Gates, I would certainly not be surprised.

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/op...re-the-rise-of-the-vaccine-industrial-complex
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One could also argue that the Chinese paper face mask maker(s) were also involved in the distribution of the virus, after all--how many have they sold worldwide since the pandemic began? Same goes for the people making the needles/glass vials/PPE etc.,
Bill Gates is either extremely disingenuous and dangerous ( as some of you would like us to believe), OR he is a philanthropist looking to help his fellow mankind. I know which one I believe.
 
Pearce Harrison said:
One could also argue that the Chinese paper face mask maker(s) were also involved in the distribution of the virus, after all--how many have they sold worldwide since the pandemic began? Same goes for the people making the needles/glass vials/PPE etc.,
Bill Gates is either extremely disingenuous and dangerous ( as some of you would like us to believe), OR he is a philanthropist looking to help his fellow mankind. I know which one I believe.
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As long as we agree on the traditional definition of the word "believe"... Believing is not knowing for a fact.
 
I wish there was a “dislike” button.
I could use it to “dislike” the posts of the conspiracy theorists on this thread.

Or maybe we should let the “conspirators” reach their own herd immunity by ignoring this thread.
[emoji107][emoji107]
 
nicoff said:
I wish there was a “dislike” button.
I could use it to “dislike” the posts of the conspiracy theorists on this thread.

Or maybe we should let the “conspirators” reach their own herd immunity by ignoring this thread.
[emoji107][emoji107]
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I only post that which is true. Facts speak for themselves. Some people have to learn to deal with reality and facts whether they like it or not. Ignore it, shut it down, whatever, it won't change the facts.
 
TheOctopus said:
I only post that which is true. Facts speak for themselves. Some people have to learn to deal with reality and facts whether they like it or not. Ignore it, shut it down, whatever, it won't change the facts.
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Your 'fact' about the hospital admin staff gaming the system with Covid--we are still waiting to see the proof from you, of this 'fact'.
Your theories are far from facts. Facts have clearly observable proof behind them, none of which you have supplied so far...which is in fact speaking for itself:hey:
 
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