The Tape project is it worth it

G

Garth

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First off I am not putting the tape project down in any way.

First question for a person with no tape machine is it worth it to buy one for the amount of titles in the tape project. (for me this means rock and blues)

Second I am sure tape sounds better than vinyl but how much better than a top of the line table , cartridge and Arm. I know this is a harder for you to answer as it is ones own perception .

Third How often are new titles being released these days is it picking up or slowing down. I was on Bottle heads site very few in number of titles and very few in the number of each tile like half dozen of each title in stock.

Forth How many companies are releasing tapes and are they all in the same format .

Five For those with decks and tapes how often do you thread them up and play them compared to your vinyl or other ways of playing music. Tapes seem like a bit more hassle to play than Vinyl not sure I am right about this.

Six If you had it all to do over as in no gear no collection of music which format would you work with A. Live music only and plane tickets to get their (I spend a fair amount on tickets about 3 to 4 grand a year) B. The tape project C. Vinyl and top of the line gear that goes with it D. four inch disks pick one E. What ever you consider the best computer down loads and set up.

This thread is not about whats best but what you would do (and why would be nice) I am heavy into vinyl as most of my music is on vinyl and neanderthals have better computer skills than I do. So I stay in vinyl
 
I dont believe The Tape Project makes tapes anymore. Have to rely on other places.

Albert Porter has 100 tapes, which is one of the largest collections I've seen.
 
Tape project was actively advertising march 19th regarding new arrivals of titles that had been out of stock. Seems active to me. What gives you the impression they are no longer supplying tapes?
 
About a year ago

I went through the same questions and answered them for myself and decided to buy a tape deck. The tapes you can get sound just flat out amazing. No really - amazing. But - they are expensive - $300 and up for an album, and limited selection.

I don't regret buying the deck and a bunch of tapes, but it is an expensive source, and you need to know what you are getting yourself into.
 
I agree with Jock. I was in the same boat. I spent $650 on a Technics 1500 and then another $7000 modding it to perfection (by JCorder). It took MONTHS and had to go back TWICE to Jeff at JCorder for fixing after UPS abused the hell out of it - TWICE.

Like Jock, I've spent a lot on tapes. They sound amazing - I mean, NOTHING sounds like tape.

My mission was to build the best system I can afford, and that meant starting with some of the best sources (which I think I have). If I didn't do tape, I would have felt one of the four corners was missing. With the KRONOS, Lumin, T+A and JCorder R2R, I feel I've achieved my goal and damn, they all sound AMAZING!



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Mike said:
I agree with Jock. I was in the same boat. I spent $650 on a Technics 1500 and then another $7000 modding it to perfection (by JCorder). It took MONTHS and had to go back TWICE to Jeff at JCorder for fixing after UPS abused the hell out of it - TWICE.

Like Jock, I've spent a lot on tapes. They sound amazing - I mean, NOTHING sounds like tape.

My mission was to build the best system I can afford, and that meant starting with some of the best sources (which I think I have). If I didn't do tape, I would have felt one of the four corners was missing. With the KRONOS, Lumin, T+A and JCorder R2R, I feel I've achieved my goal and damn, they all sound AMAZING!



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I love your passion for audio Mike :congrats:.
 
Thanks David. The Strads being perfect for my room has stopped me in my tracks. But I wouldn't object to a pair of M's! :)


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Mike said:
Thanks David. The Strads being perfect for my room has stopped me in my tracks. But I wouldn't object to a pair of M's! :)


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Less is more?....if one could consider the Strads as "less" which I don't think possible. :)

SF Strads are my dream.
 
Tape rules and still trumps the best digital. IMO nothing beats a 2nd generation master copy. I wish it was more affordable but do appreciate that low volume and high labour are factors.

I am motivated to spend more on tape. It is worth it if you are properly setup for it.
 
I love the quote "four corners"....alas for me the earth remains round and I wish I had bought one table versus three so I could have gone down Alice's tape project hole.
 
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tunes said:
Tape project was actively advertising march 19th regarding new arrivals of titles that had been out of stock. Seems active to me. What gives you the impression they are no longer supplying tapes?
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Myles and others probably know more, but its my understanding they haven't done anything new in a very long time. Biz model is too expensive.

I don't think there is much question that tape sounds better than any format out there- but its expensive, a pain to use/maintain, and there really is no catalog (if you like rock, especially). I hope that changes as the format sounds so spectacular. I heard a dummy master from the 50s on Albert's system that could be the finest recording I've ever heard. The dynamics and realism were insane.

For most audiophiles, a high end vinyl rig is a much better investment. YMMV, IMO, and all that stuff :)
 
I'm a charter subscriber to TP, and get all their tapes. So far they are still producing tapes, currently on their third series of 10. They had an open house at their SF Studio a few months ago that I attended, playing their tapes. Their model is more difficult than others (I have most of the tapes of most of the others currently doing tapes also). They pick really fine albums (for their artistic value) and they only work with original master tapes (sometimes in not great condition). Then Paul Stubblebine spends many hours working with the tapes to get the best sound out of them (the tapes are typically 30-60 years old). Much more difficult than recording new material, but the only way to get many of the artists that they have released (Coltrane, Oistrakh, Rollins, Evans etc.) Their releases span the range of blues, jazz, classical, rock) so I have been introduced to many artists that I have never listened to before, since I do almost all classical.

I have original vinyl versions of all the classical releases (Deccas and Reference Recordings) and the tapes are amazing compared to the vinyl, which were also amazing - before I heard the tapes. If there is someone near you who has some of their tapes and a tape player to match, it is worth a listen. My tape machine, a Bottlehead modified Technics 1506 with Bottlehead playback electronics was a bit under $10K, while my phono set up is somewhat over $10K,

Although this is not my favorite music, I think the finest sounding album they have released is a blues album by Little Hatch "Rock with me Baby" the Chad Kassem recorded.

As far as format, just about all the releases currently done are in 15ips 2 track 1/4 inch tape, with CCIR equalization. Some companies will also make tapes upon request in NAB EQ. My Bottlehead and my second machine, an Otari MX5050 BIII have adjustable EQ. TP and some others will sell you tapes in 1/2 inch format, with a significantly higher price tag. You will need a special machine to play those.

Larry
 
Thank you for the replies it does help and answered a lot of questions . The 300 dollar tape price is not cheap but I spend that on records every week or two. Really the releases in tapes are some of the best of the best. If 100 tapes is 30,000 not a vast amount of money the tape decks are far less than a table arm cartridge and phono stage anyone of which can be as much as a deck. If the sound is that much better it is not that bad. What is the cost to keep a deck up and running. How long should a tape last before the sound starts to go number of plays and years.
The pain in the but part is more concern any special concerns about storing tapes.
 
28 tapes by my count some out of stock not a lot music to buy a deck for how often do they bring out new titles.
 
Garth said:
Thank you for the replies it does help and answered a lot of questions . The 300 dollar tape price is not cheap but I spend that on records every week or two. Really the releases in tapes are some of the best of the best. If 100 tapes is 30,000 not a vast amount of money the tape decks are far less than a table arm cartridge and phono stage anyone of which can be as much as a deck. If the sound is that much better it is not that bad. What is the cost to keep a deck up and running. How long should a tape last before the sound starts to go number of plays and years.
The pain in the but part is more concern any special concerns about storing tapes.
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I think I have close 100 of the high end prerecorded tapes and the price averaged probably over $300 each. The most expensive were direct duplicates of master tapes like Opus 3 does ($500 each) and some of Jonathan Horwich's direct dubs (similar price). Recommendations are to store vertically and play through once a year. These tapes are always stored tails out, meaning the tape must be rewound just before playing and then stored without rewinding after playing. This produces the most even tension of the wind. I have other prerecorded tapes that as as old as 60 years old (2 track 7.5in RCA stereos that were released before stereo records were issued - around 1955). Lots from the '60s and '70s which are of variable quality, when the tape duplication was done at high speed. Last time I looked, I have about 900 of the older R2R prerecorded tapes.

The new stuff, like the Tape Project, are all duplicated in real time, either one at a time or with a master and a small number of slave machines. TP is the granddaddy of this new group. I have tapes from UltraAnalogue (Ed Pong), Yarlung - Sonorus (Bob Attiyeh), IRI (Jonathan Horwich), Opus 3 (from Sweden but distributed by Kevin Berg), MPS - Lutz Precision (from Germany), and a few others. Some folks, like TP, issue albums that take more than 34 minutes and thus are two 10.5" reels, while others are kept to under that and are only one reel, and thus cheaper to produce. TP also has, by far the most elegant packaging.

Larry
 
Garth said:
28 tapes by my count some out of stock not a lot music to buy a deck for how often do they bring out new titles.
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They are currently on their third series of 10 tapes. They have released 25 tapes and have three more titles that have been announced and two additional titles they are working on. Since they don't record their own material, the licensing and then the work on the master tapes is a complex and time consuming process, especially since the three principals (Dan Schmalle, Paul Stubblebine, and Michael Romanowski) all have full time and more jobs in the audio business. TP is definitely a labor of love, where I think they don't make a lot of money. They started about 5 years ago, so I would guesstimate that they have released about 1 tape every 2-3 months, but not on regular schedule. People who subscribed to the series from the beginning get their tapes first. There are also important considerations like having people join late and ordering tapes from earlier series. They have to wait until there are enough orders to make a run of duplicates. They only have one set of production machines so when they are doing a production run of a new tape, they can't do any duplication of older tapes, and vice versa.

Just about anyone who has some of their tapes and others that have been released will say that it is the best audio experience that they have had. But definitely not for everyone. The tape machines that you will see that can play these tapes are essentially all old and used and the best of these have been carefully reconditioned, most with new playback electronics. Fortunately there are some excellent technicians across the country who can repair them when needed, but no sending back to the factory where they were built. Nothing like buying a new TT or DAC.

Larry

PS. There are probably around 150 tapes curently available from the different folks, in a variety of genres. So if you are looking at buying a machine, you should not just be looking at TP tapes.
 
Amazing. I knew nothing about this. I love that you guys are keeping this format alive.
 
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