The Tape project is it worth it

I never mentioned the MTR-15. The MTR-15 is not in production. I was addressing the only Otari reel to reel deck that is currently in production.

I agree with Mark on the Otari MX5050BIII, which is one of two tape recorders I have. I think the proper term for it is semi-pro, or prosumer. It certainly is not pro Studer or Ampex, which is generally what the pros use (or used) for recording and duplicating. It only has balanced in and out, easily removable head blocks, and provisions for tape splicing, so it also isn't a consumer model either. Better built and more expensive than my old Sony, Akai or Teac. Mine had been used in a small radio station, I think mostly for playback, though clearly they did some editing with it (you can see some razor blade marks). But this was not a recording studio.

Larry
 
Interesting posts all important points
1. sound
2. limited amount of titles
3. old decks
4. Maintenance
5. easy of use
6. cost of tapes
7.involving (soul)
I did like the used Ferrari comparison it rang true. Sorry but no matter how easy digital is to use it has no soul IMO. Good thread so far.
 
I agree with Mark on the Otari MX5050BIII, which is one of two tape recorders I have. I think the proper term for it is semi-pro, or prosumer. It certainly is not pro Studer or Ampex, which is generally what the pros use (or used) for recording and duplicating. It only has balanced in and out, easily removable head blocks, and provisions for tape splicing, so it also isn't a consumer model either. Better built and more expensive than my old Sony, Akai or Teac. Mine had been used in a small radio station, I think mostly for playback, though clearly they did some editing with it (you can see some razor blade marks). But this was not a recording studio.

Larry

FYI, I've come across various decks referred to as "Broadcasting machines"...thought I'd mention it since we seem to be sorting out definitions of deck types/uses and, to be honest, I've never really had a good understanding the difference between broadcast, professional, studio, studio, duplication and pro-sumer machines. Thanks all for the conversation and thoughts!
:congrats:
 
Interesting posts all important points
1. sound
2. limited amount of titles
3. old decks
4. Maintenance
5. easy of use
6. cost of tapes
7.involving (soul)
I did like the used Ferrari comparison it rang true. Sorry but no matter how easy digital is to use it has no soul IMO. Good thread so far.

Garth,

I'm a little late to the party but here is my two cents.

First, you could ask the same question of our panel at Axpona in a couple of weeks!

Session Detail

Let me try and address your points one by one.

1. There is no doubt that real time duped 15 ips, 2-track tapes are in a league of their own (though I'll shortly be doing some comparisons of quad DSD vs. 15 ips tapes that might prove interesting). I don't know about others but I treasure sound as much as performance and am frustrated by why the two have to be mutually exclusive. :( (Or I'd rather own one Armani suit than ten Bloomingdale's suits.) After all, the pursuit of the Holy Grail is getting the sound in one's home as close as is humanly possible to the live performance and tape is definitely in many people's minds a major step in that direction.

I also find tapes useful as a reference for my analog front end. Comparing the same recording on tape and LP really is revealing and educational as to how well a turntable, arm, cartridge or phono stages, perform. Especially when it comes to dynamics and their unfettered ease of presentation.

2. Titles. I saw Larry did a rough count of the total titles available. No question that jazz lovers are better served than say rock or classical lovers. But there are now around 18 companies issuing 15 ips tapes (in fact, a brand new company will be making their first appearance on our panel at Axpona!).

3. Old decks. Yes and no. You can go the route like I (or Mike) did and buy and old deck, have it refurbished and add new modern heads and outboard electronics. I do suggest if going this route to change the heads to get the most out of your investment. Two that are very good are either the Flux Magnetics Extended Response heads or the Pro Nortronics that I use in my machine. There's not a whole lot to go wrong with say the Technics decks save maybe adjustment of the tensioners. Those direct drive motors used in the deck are monsters and were also used in Technics top of the line turntables.

Or you can buy a turnkey approach like the decks that UHA (like Christian or The Prof bought) or Sonorus (that Yarlung Records uses for their analog recordings) sell. Both are for all intents and purpose "new" (really retaining little of the original deck save the case) and truly excellent decks and most of all, come with a warranty. Remember the pro decks like Studer and Ampex were built like tanks and built to last also.

4. Maintenance. Very little needed for say a Technics unless it's moved around. Azimuth is pretty much solid. Other than that, just cleaning the heads and pinch rollers. Pro decks have a steeper learning curve and it really does help to have someone like a Ki Choi around to help repair or align ones deck. (Or say Fred Thal, considered the world's foremost Studer authority, though he's very expensive).

5. Ease of use. No harder and even maybe in some way easier than a turntable.

6. Cost. Glad you brought that up. Yes the tapes are expensive but bear in mind that today's raw tape and reels cost (for one side of an album) $100 or more. Also remember that the non-real time duped 2-track tapes that contained only one side of the LP that were released in '57 or '58 cost $30 or more. Plug that number into the CPI and the result is that same tape today would cost ~$350. Not all that different than what most companies charge. There are some minor differences in that some like Opus 3 are true second generation while others might be 2-1/2 gens removed from the master tape. No worries because there's minimal loss if done well.

7. Involving. Once you've heard 15 ips-- or God forbid 30 ips or even as some (like for instance Mike Lavigne and a few others) have 1/2 inch tape--there's no going back.

Lastly, just to quick touch upon the The Tape Project as raised by a few individuals. Yes they have gone through some growing pains but they recently moved their operation and are now up and running. They are now almost half way through series 3 and many are outstanding (I'm just finishing up reviews of the Lee Morgan and John Lee Hoooker releases). Most importantly, one can also purchase some of the older Series 1 or 2 tapes (assume TTP still has license) at a discounted price of $350. Unfortunately, there's just no way of mass producing 15 ips tapes and also maintaining some semblance of Q/C. So yes, there is sometimes a wait time but it's worth it.

Some of the companies that I highly recommend:

Yarlung Records
The Tape Project
MPS (Oscar Peterson reissues)
Opus 3
International Phonograph Inc.
Hemolia Records
 
Thanks Myles glad your back nice write up. You should send that to one of the big Magazines very good . This whole thread has gone very well lot of people put in some very good info.
 
I've written several articles on tape machines as well as on the available software for PFO. Look for my first piece on The Tape Project and reel to reel decks a couple of years ago on the PFO website. It's a good how to get started piece. Lots has happened since then too.
 
I would add UltraAnalogue to Myle's List. Never heard of Hemolia. I will check them out. Larry
 
Myles
Thanks for your perspective on the current state of tape as a viable source in this hobby. Some of the issues you are willing to deal with in points 1, 2, 5 & 6 are deal breakers for many of us. Then again there a others whose objectives must be aligned with yours otherwise we would not see the growth and interest in tape.
 
Myles
Thanks for your perspective on the current state of tape as a viable source in this hobby. Some of the issues you are willing to deal with in points 1, 2, 5 & 6 are deal breakers for
many of us. Then again there a others whose objectives must be aligned with yours otherwise we would not see the growth and interest in tape.

Yes some of us like challenges! But there's a pride of ownership when you see those reels spinning away! :)

BTW doesn't Larry Marcus have a machine in his store that he spins from time to time?
 
7. Involving. Once you've heard 15 ips-- or God forbid 30 ips or even as some (like for instance Mike Lavigne and a few others) have 1/2 inch tape--there's no going back.

If 15ips quarter inch tapes are 200 to 400 dollars how much are 1/2 inch tapes .

Are 1/2 tapes done in 30 ips for the most part and how many titles are their . How many tapes to record one record size length in 30 ips.

Or is 30 ips only in pro gear.
 
Garth - Myles was instrumental in helping me get back into R2R. He gave me a roadmap and I followed it to a tee. :scholar:

The results are enjoyed daily!
 
7. Involving. Once you've heard 15 ips-- or God forbid 30 ips or even as some (like for instance Mike Lavigne and a few others) have 1/2 inch tape--there's no going back.

If 15ips quarter inch tapes are 200 to 400 dollars how much are 1/2 inch tapes .

Not exactly sure but little more than double. Maybe Sam can answer since he plays with 1/2 inch tape.

Are 1/2 tapes done in 30 ips for the most part and how many titles are their .

Not sure can generalize -find that recordings could have been done at 7-1/2 all the way up to 30 ips since there is no standard. But probably more 30 ips are 1/2 rather than 1/4 inch. Think of all those magnetic particles going by the tape head at 30 ips! IIRC Kavi's Water Lily recordings on Tim's machine were 15 ips 1/2.

How many tapes to record one record size length in 30 ips.

Or is 30 ips only in pro gear.

Yes 30 AFAIK is the province of Pro machines and has its own EQ curve. Remember also need different head stacks for 1/4 and 1/2 tape (not to mention 1-inch).

Depends on the number of takes, etc. But obviously given costs, engineers are a little more frugal when recording at 30 ips.
 
I would add UltraAnalogue to Myle's List. Never heard of Hemolia. I will check them out. Larry




Jazz - HEMIOLIA srl

BTW Giorgio's collection of tape machines makes Ki's look like beginner. You should check out the specs on the machine's he restored and updated.

Yes, Giorgio's also serviced hundreds of Nagra Tape machines over decades. He knows them intimately and has several pristine units in use. Cool guy.
 
I was working on my Axpona presentation and this is what I could come up with for "legal, legit" sources of 15 ips tapes.

The Tape Project
Master Tape Sound
Yarlung Records
Opus 3
Fone
International phonograph Inc
Lutz Precision/MPS-Music
UltraAnalogue
Hemiolia Records
Premonition Records
Lyn Stanley
Open Reel Records
Tone-Pearls Records
Dangerous Analog
Groove Note

Would be very appreciative if anyone sees a company that I missed. Also I've seen listings for one or two companies selling tapes in Asia but can't seem to locate them. There are also rumors of one or two other musically connected companies jumping in but not sure they will ever come to fruition.
 
Myles, thanks. Definitely there are several on your list that I never heard of. One not on your list that I have from few years ago is Quinton Phoenix Edition, where I bought my Sabina Hanks album. Not sure whether they are still around.

Larry
 
Myles, thanks. Definitely there are several on your list that I never heard of. One not on your list that I have from few years ago is Quinton Phoenix Edition, where I bought my Sabina Hanks album. Not sure whether they are still around.

Larry

Thanks did forget them! I think they are still around.
 
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